Suggestions for first build

[Big Red]

Hello all,

I was hoping to get a few suggestions for a new PC I'd like to build. The computer I have now is a 5 year old Gateway, and although it was screaming fast in it's day, it just isn't cutting it anymore.

The considerations I have for my new machine are:

* A great multi-tasker ... I usually run with MS Access, MS Excel, iTunes, Windows Explorer, about 10 internet tabs, and a ton of stuff in the background (anti-virus, etc). I don't want any delay at all! Right now it takes my machine minutes to to respond to a single click sometimes!

* Great for audio/video ... I listen to a ton of music and will probably get some nice speakers. I edit video semi-frequently, and also perform video conversion quite often (i.e. convert DVD to MPEG4 for iPod, etc).

* Tower size and noise are not the biggest of my concerns.

* Price ... a low as possible, obviously, but I would be prepared to spend $1500-$2000 total (without monitor) if I could be convinced a certain part really warranted a great benefit.

* Not much of a gamer ... but I occasionally do find a fun game I like to play, so I'd like it to be able to handle just about anything (now or in the future), although I don't expect to use it for that too often.

* OS ... say what you want about it, but I'm an eye-candy person and I will almost certainly be getting Vista Ultimate 32 bit. It might just take a little more homework on the front end to make sure the components will all work correctly.

* "Future-proofing" ... If I have to lean in the direction of cheaper price or a major tech advancement, I'd probably want to make sure it can last longer and maybe bypass that certain upgrade for a while. For example, quad core interests me, but I don't know enough about it to make a really informed decision.

Also, as a side note, I'd like to allow for bluetooth and a card reader (I've heard the best way to get the card reader is to put it in the floppy bay), so any help along those lines would also be great.

I figured you all would know where the best components and best deals are right now. Thanks in advance for any thoughts you have.

[The Wise Monkey]

Quad core is definitely the way to go, judging from what you would be using the computer for. I'd recommend the Q6600 or the Q6700, depending on the price. Actually, AMD are bringing out their competition for the Intel quad cores, so you may want to wait for a month or so to see the prices - the Phenom Agena cores are due for release in Nov/Dec 07.

RAM wise, you should probably aim for 4GB if you are doing video editing/photoshop work, as well as lots of multitasking. If you do go for 4GB, then get the 64 bit version of Vista as it will be able to handle all the memory - no 32 bit system can deal with more than 3GB.

For the GFX card, I would recommend the 8800GT as it is pretty much guaranteed to play any game out at the moment, and for a while to come yet.

As a fellow audiophile, I can definitely recommend getting a decent sound card - the Creative X-Fi Soundblaster Platinum is an excellent choice. It is expensive - about $170 on newegg - but you get what you pay for. If this is too much, most stuff from Creative is very good, especially the rest of the X-Fi series.

You might be interested in running a dual monitor setup, as it sounds like multi-tasking is a major part of your computer use. This is definitely worth looking into - dual monitors are awesome. :D

[Jamie Nixx]

I would wait a bit first, the 8800GT won't be instores for a good couple of days yet, and the new AMD's are not out for a couple of months as WM said, they are supposed to put AMD back in the big league again, although Intel are bringing out a new range of Quad cores with a 1333Mhz FSB, they are sure to be excellent.

I have the sound card WM is talking about, silly amount of money, but you get what you pay for.

Its not worth going for more than 2GB of ram unless you are using a 64 bit operating system, for them 4GB is best.

Case wise, the best case to go for now is the Antec P182, my uncle just got one and it is probably the best case around.

If you want ultimate graphics for a cheap price, on the 19th of November Nvidia are releasing a new 8800GTS which is going to blow the GTX out of the water and is only going to be a shade under the new Ultra XXX cards, and its going to be just under the price of a 8800GTS 640MB.

The motherboard should have at least a P35 chipset.

Its hard to price a computer now, because if you wait a couple of months you can build a better computer for the same amount of money or less, although i don't mind pricing a computer in your price range for you, i regularly do it for members on this website.

[Big Red]

Thanks for all the great feedback. I understand that technology is always changing, and you can always be "waiting" for the newest and next biggest thing ... but it sounds like right now may be a good time to wait since there are a couple really big things coming out right around the corner.

It sounds like, for one, the GFX card is worth waiting for ... and getting either the 8800GT or new GTS. Also, I can wait to see what AMD's new Quad's look like - I suppose it's possible that the competition may have an impact on Intel's prices too. Any idea on the release timeframes or pricing for Intel's quad's with 1333Mhz FSB? It seems like those may be a while out yet.

Do you recommend going with Vista 64 bit? Are there major issues with software compatibility? What is the big downside to going this route?

I may just continue researching for now and wait a month or two to buy if you think that will be a major difference in price & performance.

Thanks for the input!

[Jamie Nixx]

A new range of Quad cores from Intel is inevitable, but when i don't know, hopefully before the year is out.

If you feel like waiting a couple of months before building i would say get 64bit Vista, i am even thinking of getting it myself by the time christmas comes, it all depends on drivers however.

I would continue researching and buy in a month or two, in that time Intel will have lowered CPU prices even more in the run upto christmas and you will get a lot more computer for your money.

I am very excited by the 8800GT, from the early reviews it looks to be one of the finest GPU's ever made and at the price, its like you are robbing the computer companies that are going to sell it lol, makes a change eh :D

[Big Red]

Hello again. I've been checking into some articles about the upcoming CPU's from both camps. It sounds like the AMD chip will be the Phenom? Any news on the actual specs on this yet? I couldn't find anything specifically, but several places speculated the chip would be released in November. Thought maybe someone here would have the latest, if the info was out there somewhere.

As for Intel ... what's the difference between a Quad and an Extreme? I see the leading Extreme has a 1333Mhz FSB, but the difference in price seems to be outrageous. Is this something I should be considering? Is the next apparent step for Intel to release a Non-Extreme Quad with a 1333Mhz FSB? Any news on this possibility floating around yet? I've also heard about the 45nm chips, which will help with heating? Are 45nm Intel Quad's are the "release-radar" yet? Are they a big deal.

Thanks for any info. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around what I should be watching for!

[The Wise Monkey]

The main difference with the Extreme processors is that they have the 1333MHz FSB and an unlocked multiplier for overclocking, so it costs loads more. If you're gonna spend that much, you might as well get the QX6850.

The next Intel CPU will be the QX6950 (unofficially named) afaik, with more of the Penryn cores:

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9814453-37.html?tag=nefd.blgs

[Big Red]

I see that the AMD Quad is out now ... at least one of them. The 9500 is 2.2 GHz 259.99 at NewEgg. I also hear there should be another, the 9700 coming out in Jan which was delayed due to some problems.

So now that this is released, does it change anything? It looks like I can get a 2.4 Intel for a little less or about the same price.

Should I be waiting for the next AMD/Intel's to be released in early 08, or will it not make much of a difference?

Just wondering whether I should jump into something now, or if these chips that are coming out in the near future will be similarly priced but with major benefits ... thanks for the help.

[Jamie Nixx]

AMD Quad = Nowhere near as good as Intel Quad (i am talking about current Intel quads not the new ones)

Doesn't change anything mate, Intel are still producing the best CPU's, if AMD keep producing CPU's like this they will be out of business soon.

Good thing the ATI 3870 GPU's are selling like hotcakes.

Wait a while, you won't regret it.

[Big Red]

Wait for the Intel's "Penryn" 45nm chips, or wait for the redesigned "Nehalem"? From what I gather, "Penryn" will be available Q1 08, which is an acceptable wait if it will be that much better. I can't figure out when Nehalem is supposed to be released though, other than "...in 2008".

If it's into Q2 at all, I'll probably just build now, because I really don't want to be waiting 4+ months for a new system. Hypothetically (if "Nehalem" is all that better), if I build now and upgraded later to "Nehalem", what components would I need to replace? CPU, MB? Anything else? Anything wrong with going that route?

-Thanks!

[Jamie Nixx]

Nehalem cores are going to blow everthing away and i mean EVERYTHING.

As you can probably gather Intel are releasing as little info as possible.

To be honest i don't really know about the hardware requirements of the Nehalem, they will probably use a 1600Mhz FSB like some if the new Quads do or it may be even more.

I would just wait for the Penryn, if i am reading right on the Nehalem its going to be one expensive mother.

[Big Red]

Well, I've been waiting and waiting for the Penryn, and now I've heard some rumors it will be released early this month. Has anyone else heard something similar?

I noticed New Egg has some pretty nice discounts right now, and wondered if anyone would recommend I start stocking up on the parts if I already know what processor I'm going to get.

Would I be safe buying ahead? Are the deals at New Egg worth it?

Thanks~

[Big Red]

Hi again all,

Just saw my processor show up on Intel's website, so I guess it's time to start the official build!!

One question as I'm doing my research:

What's the difference between these (other than $10), and which should I get?:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145176
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184

Thanks!

[Jamie Nixx]

The Grey ones have better heatspreaders on them.

[Big Red]

Thanks~

2 other questions (for now):

P182 is 99.99 right now on newegg ($70 off normal price), and normally more expensive than the 900, currently at 119. Jamie ... I've seen you recommend both in various posts. Do you prefer one over the other for a particular reason?

EVGA 8800GT 289.99, or 8800GTS (supposedly w/Crysis) for +$40. Any reason not to go for the GTS?

Thanks!

[Jamie Nixx]

No reason not to go for the GTS, thats a good deal.

Hmm, i have both cases, if the P182 has $70 off the normal price, then i would go for that.

[Big Red]

One last thing, and then i think I'm at least mostly ready to finalize the build: The mobo. You mentioned it should be at least a P35, but I'm unfamiliar with what would be better than a P35, and what the benefits are.

A few things that might affect the mobo are: I want to add bluetooth, wi-fi (potentially 'n'), and run Raid 0. The chip I will use is either the new Q9550 or Q9650, depending on price.

Can someone tell me a few different options I might have for the mobo, and what the potential benefits and downsides are?

Thanks a lot!

[Jamie Nixx]

There is nothing better than the P35 chipset at this moment in time, there is a newer chipset board out, the X38, but its a lot more expensive and its basically the same apart from better Crossfire perfromance.

P35 boards support the new Penryns and DDR3 memory (as well as DDR2).

The Asus P5K-C is probably the best motherboard out now, at least one of the best, it has no drawbacks apart from it doesn't have built in WIFI.

[Big Red]

So it comes down to either having it built in, or adding it via PCI?

[Jamie Nixx]

I wouldn't choose a motherboard over the fact it has built in WIFI, i would just get a PCI one.

[Big Red]

Well, it looks like Intel may not release the Q9450 until Feb or March, and I'm not waiting another couple of months to build. So, can someone recommend a decent (compatible w/ P5KC) not-too-expensive temporary processor to fill the shoes of the Q9450 til it finally comes out?

My thoughts were something along the lines of the E2160 or 925 ... but what do I know?

Thanks

[BobaFettK]

This is definitely not a "temporary" replacement, but I just ordered the new 45nm E8400 processor from Newegg. It's supposed to be overclockable to 4+ gHz. It runs anywhere from $190-230 depending on where you look and who has it available.

[Big Red]

Ok, I've been building my system today and I just found out the P5KC doesn't support internal RAID. Major dissapointment. I have 2 SATA drives, that I can just use individually, or I can buy a RAID controller. If I go the controller route, do I still get the benefits of RAID (0), or are they overshadowed by the fact that I have to use a controller in the first place instead of the mobo natively supporting it?

[chunkylover53]

I don't know anything about RAID, but what is the difference between internal RAID and what I see on page 5-28 of the P5KC manual? It reads like it does have an onboard controller.:confused:

[Big Red]

Raid is combining two drives for a certain purpose ... I want to do Raid 0 which makes two drives act like one drive so it can read/write across both of them at the same time instead of having the limitations of read/write speed of a single drive. In this configuration, it effectively doubles the speed of your drives.

The way this mobo's raid works is with 1 internal drive, and 1 external (via eSATA) drive. That's no good, because I want to use 2 internal drives. Apparently, both of the aforementioned ports are on the north bridge, which is the only bridge that supports Raid. The other 4 SATA ports are on the south bridge (all internal) which doesn't support Raid. So anything connected to the south bridge cannot be used as a part of the raid configuration.

So my question is, do I lose speed by the mere fact that I'm not using the onboard SATA connections? If I *do* lose speed by buying a Raid controller, by how much, and is Raid 0 even worth it at that point?

Thanks.

[The Wise Monkey]

Lol, what a stupid setup that board has - its really worth noting this for anyone planning to buy this motherboard.

Using an external RAID card will actually be faster than using the onboard controller, as all of the responsibility for the HDs is taken away from the OS and the motherboard. Basically, the firmware of the RAID card will take care of the buffering of data, and stuff like that.

RAID controllers are quite expensive though, so bear this in mind.

[Big Red]

How about this one ... only $25

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132008

[The Wise Monkey]

I stand corrected. :)

I'm used to working with servers, so the RAID cards I use are very expensive. Just bear in mind that that card only supports 2 SATA drives, so you would need another card if you plan to use more than that.

If not, then I say go for it.

[Big Red]

Yeah, I just need the 2 ports for a Raid setup of 2 disks. I'll still have 4 other ports on the mobo. Any more ports than 2, and they start to get outrageous in price, so I think (hope) this one will work nicely.

[The Wise Monkey]

It should be OK - let us know how you get on. :)