Questions on RAM Timings & CAS Latency -- also issues with current MB...

[JeffAHayes19]

This forum was THE impetus for me to build my first system in July of 2009, so this is where I thought to come for some more questions and answers now that it looks like I may need to replace my MB, since I see no sense in doing that without also replacing my CPU and RAM (other components are fine).

When I built my "supersystem" almost 3.5 years ago, I bought the Haf 932 Coolermaster case, the Gigabyte EX58-UD5 MB with DUAL Gigabit ethernet ports on it, along with many more ports and outputs, an Intel 80GB SSD for a boot drive, with a WD 10,000 RPM Velociraptor for a storage drive (and other external USB drives for much of mass storage), an ATI Radeon Sapphire 2GB DDR5 video card with HDMI out, and I installed 12 GB of 1600 Mhz DDR3 RAM (6 x 2GB). My CPU was the Core i7 920, the "beginner" Core i7 model.

From DAY ONE I had "issues." I spent $20 at a local electronics store for a wrist grounding strap which I used RELIGIOUSLY when touching or installing ANY component. But once I got everything put together, when I went to boot the system, it HUNG at a certain diagnostic number. As I'd never built a system before, I had NO IDEA if I'd hooked something up wrong, etc. Finally, at my wit's end, I took my home-built computer to a local shop that custom-builds and repairs computers and had THEM look at it. They went over the MB with a fine-tooth comb and discovered it had a bad transister, or resistor, or something and fixed that one little component, and IT WORKED. Cost me an extra $100, BUT it was a lot less hassle to me than sending every single component back to Newegg, since I had no idea which one was bad!

When both SATA 3 AND USB3 came out I decided I'd like to add both, and ordered an ASUS PCIe x4 card that included TWO SATA 3 internal connections, PLUS a slot for two external connections and one for two external USB3 connections. As Newegg ALSO had the NEW WD Velociraptor 10,000 RPM SATA 3 600 GB drives on sale for LESS than I'd paid for my initial 300 GB, I bought two of those, as well. The card and drives have been in place for a year or so, now -- including an external USB3 drive, or two. EVERY TIME I boot up, I see the software for that card initialize and ALL those drives show up on my computer's list of drives. But if I let the computer stay on for a few days, It LOSES the connections like they JUST DON'T EXIST!

Also, along the way (about this same time), BOTH Gigabit ethernet connections crapped out on me; first one, then the other. I finally had to plunk out about $20 to Newegg to get a PCIe1 Gigabit ethernet card so I can still get online. NOW, ZBURNS, is this starting to sound MORE like a MB issue than a RAM issue???

I'm kinda BUMMED about this Gigabyte MB (the user's manual was PURE CRAP, too, by the way) Right now I'm looking at an ASRock Fatality AZ77 Professional (about $219). ASRock's a Taiwan company that's been in business for only 10 years, but I already downloaded the manual, and it's NIGHT AND DAY different from the Gigabyte manual.

I figure if I do this, there's no sense in keeping the 920 chip. The 3770K is about $320 and easily the fastest, most efficient CPU on the market. I know it sounds like PURE LUNACY to build a system for HOME USE with 32 GB of RAM in it, but there are SEVERAL SOLUTIONS for well under $200 for 32GB of RAM (I paid a bit more than $200 for my 12GB 3.5 years ago)...

As I just recently, finally got serious again with my photography in the past year and am now shooting hundreds of photos a month, and may need to do batch processing on many of them, IF Adobe Lightroom 4 (which I just bought, along with a 256GB SSD I've yet to install) runs native 64-bit, all the RAM I can muster may be worth it.

Thus my question... JUST WHAT IS CAS Latency, and what does that mean? And just WHAT IS the "TIMING" on RAM, and what does THAT mean?... Here's the list:

Fast Corsair Vengeance 1.5V memory for Z77CORSAIR
Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 Desktop Memory Model
CMZ32GX3M4X1866C10CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3
1866 Desktop Memory Model CMZ32GX3M4X1866C10

DDR3 1866
Timing 10-11-10-30
Cas Latency 10


Cas Latency: 10
Voltage: 1.5V
Multi-channel Kit: Quad Channel Kit
Timing: 10-11-10-30
Model #: CMZ32GX3M4X1866C10
Item #: N82E16820233237
Return Policy: Memory
Standard Return Policy (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#41)


Was: $199.99
Now:
$189.99
CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB)
240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model
CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3
1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10

DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Timing 10-10-10-27
Cas Latency 10


Cas Latency: 10
Voltage: 1.5V
Multi-channel Kit: Dual Channel Kit
Timing: 10-10-10-27
Model #: CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10
Item #: N82E16820233246
Return Policy: Memory
Standard Return Policy (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#41)


Now:
$79.99
CORSAIR
XMS3 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
Model CMX16GX3M2A1600C11CORSAIR XMS3 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin
DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model
CMX16GX3M2A1600C11

DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Timing 11-11-11-30
Cas Latency 11


Cas Latency: 11
Voltage: 1.5V
Multi-channel Kit: Dual Channel Kit
Timing: 11-11-11-30
Model #: CMX16GX3M2A1600C11
Item #: N82E16820145357
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#41)


Now:
$70.99
G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-1866C10D-16GABG.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3
1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-1866C10D-16GAB

DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)
Timing 10-11-10
Cas Latency 10


Cas Latency: 10
Voltage: 1.5V
Multi-channel Kit: Dual Channel Kit
Timing: 10-11-10
Model #: F3-1866C10D-16GAB
Item #: N82E16820231560
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#41)


Now:
$87.99
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x
8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model
F3-12800CL10D-16GBXLG.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model
F3-12800CL10D-16GBXL

DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Timing 10-10-10-30
Cas Latency 10


Cas Latency: 10
Voltage: 1.5V
Multi-channel Kit: Dual Channel Kit
Timing: 10-10-10-30
Model #: F3-12800CL10D-16GBXL
Item #: N82E16820231489
Return Policy: Memory
Standard Return Policy (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#41)


Now:
$69.99
CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB)
240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10CORSAIR
Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model
CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10

DDR3 1600
Timing 10-10-10-27
Cas Latency 10


Cas Latency: 10
Voltage: 1.5V
Multi-channel Kit: Quad Channel Kit
Timing: 10-10-10-27
Model #: CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10
Item #: N82E16820233232
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#41)


Now:
$159.99
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 32GB (4 x
8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model
F3-1600C9Q-32GXMG.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9Q-32GXM

DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Timing 9-9-9
Cas Latency 9


Cas Latency: 9
Voltage: 1.5V
Multi-channel Kit: Dual Channel Kit
Timing: 9-9-9
Model #: F3-1600C9Q-32GXM
Item #: N82E16820231569
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#41)


Now:
$179.99




My apologies this is soooooooooooo long. I had a lot to explain, and a lot to ask, and I wanted to be as clear as possible.
Any and all help will be GREATLY appreciated.

[zburns]

But if I let the computer stay on for a few days, It LOSES the connections like they JUST DON'T EXIST!

Just to be clear, exactly where and when do you see this problem occur? Does the existence of the drive disappear from the BIOS listing or is the 'disappearance' at a non-BIOS location?
-------------
Please be more specific about the AsRock mobo. The AZ77 is not a valid number. Z77 by itself is. There is a Z77 Professional and a Sabertooth Z77 -- both in the $ 220 range but at different stores. What is the price and at what store, plus a full description from the 'Store Listing'.

[zburns]

Here is an article by Hardware Secrets with a fairly good explanation on CAS latency and RAM Timings. Explanation on the first page. You might want to read the whole article. Here is the URL: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Understanding-RAM-Timings/26/2

On another point:

EVERY TIME I boot up, I see the software for that card initialize and ALL those drives show up on my computer's list of drives. But if I let the computer stay on for a few days, It LOSES the connections like they JUST DON'T EXIST!

ALL those drives show up on my computer's list of drives.

Where is the list of drives? Is it in the BIOS or external from the BIOS?
----------------

You have a lot of 2 Gb sticks of RAM installed (6). Without going into a lot of detail, the number of memory chips on each stick do not hold a lot of memory. My opinion, it is easier for there to be a 'timing error' given the high number of chips just for 2 gig, compared to using a smaller number of sticks if only 4 gig per stick was used. You have triple channel memory on that motherboard, six slots. You could populate them with just three slots loaded with 4 gig per slot and get the same performance with less 'circuitry that relates to the timing' and hopefully, more or tighter accuracy in the timing. This is my own effort to describe what I trying to get across. Tomorrow I will look for a better description and post it if I can find one!!

-----------------
Your RAM compatibility is supposed to be approved by the motherboard mfg. On the webpage for the mobo, there is a Memory Support List at this URL: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2958&dl=1#ov Click on Memory Support List and you will see what I refer too. It is not a complete list, meaning it does not necessarily eliminate other RAM. I am also not sure just how important the list really is. The Gigabyte Tech Support in the USA are really nice and helpful, so I imagine some help is available there if needed.

More tomorrow!

[JeffAHayes19]

Just to be clear, exactly where and when do you see this problem occur? Does the existence of the drive disappear from the BIOS listing or is the 'disappearance' at a non-BIOS location?
-------------
Please be more specific about the AsRock mobo. The AZ77 is not a valid number. Z77 by itself is. There is a Z77 Professional and a Sabertooth Z77 -- both in the $ 220 range but at different stores. What is the price and at what store, plus a full description from the 'Store Listing'.

First, zburns, THANKS for making me be more CONCISE (I'm usually the one grousing about folks not being concise enough, lol).

The two WD 600 GB SATA 3 drives AND the 2 TB external Seagate USB3 drive BOTH just DISAPPEAR from Windows Explorer. In other words, usually, if I want to access a drive (I have my start button set up with lists and sublists and to scroll if the lists are too long), I simply click on START, then click on COMPUTER, and a list of available drives will show up in a BOX to the right... If I want to open a Windows Explorer box that shows icons including used and available storage for ALL my drives, I simply CLICK on the "Computer" tab. Otherwise, I move my mouse to the right and click on the drive I want to access and it pops open at its root level... Been doing things this way since I first came back to Windows from Mac around Xmas 2003... Sometimes it takes only a few hours; others, several days, but sooner or later, when I click on "Computer," NONE of those three drives will show up. I'm CERTAIN I fully seated the ASUS card when I installed it -- doubt it would work at all, if I hadn't -- and this sometimes happens DURING an open session of Windows, while I'm sitting here with the computer on, NOT while it's in "Sleep" mode. I've tried re-installing the driver software that came with the card AND doing driver updates, with neither fixing the problem. But a REBOOT almost always does -- EXCEPT when the system is rebooting after a Windows software update. Then I usually have to do a SECOND reboot.

The card is the ASUS U3S6 PCIe x4 with Bridge. I believe it got HIGH reviews on Newegg when I bought it (I ALMOST NEVER buy something that DOESN'T get high reviews unless I know better from personal experience). WHEN the drives appear they function beautifully and apparently work at, or close to, full BUS speed (within the limitations of internal drive dynamics).

As to the ASRock motherboard, the one I'm pretty sure I've narrowed things down to is (cut-and-pasted from Newegg site), the: ASRock Z77 Professional LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard -- Hothardware.com Editor's Choice

As I have a LONG history of liking to plug in external stuff (I had my current Gigabyte MB's 10 external USB 2 ports almost maxed out at one point), I'm REALLY BIG on the fact that this is one of the VERY FEW MBs I've seen with SIX external USB 3 connections on the rear (plus an internal connection and plate to put two more on the front panel -- and still 6 USB 2 ports and a Firewire port (I have ONE Firewire external drive) and an optical audio connection, as well, on the rear panel -- AND two Gigabit ethernet ports (I MAY figure out a way to use both at once this time).

Also, when Microsoft unveiled Windows 7 2.5 years ago, I signed up to host a Windows 7 training party. For my trouble I got Limited Edition Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade, which I used on my "Black Friday 2006" Dell XPS 410 with a Dual Core 2600 processor. It's sat mostly idle since, BUT now I'm thinking IF I do this upgrade in my current case, I may be able to move my current MB, CPU and RAM to the Dell case (I'd already bumped its weak PS to a 500-watt one, among other things, like maxing out RAM that would now be worthless). If the GB MB will fit, I have a solution for my aging Gen. 1 system (XPS 410 also has an upgraded video card -- for it -- 500 MB of RAM vs. the 256 it came with). I could keep (for now), my ATI 4870 with my new MB, CPU and RAM.

So, thoughts... answers??? More queries, questions, posers??? (to paraphrase "Number 5" from the 1986 movie Short Circuit).
Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[zburns]

I would caution you against trying to do too many things at once on your system without definitively solving the problem that has 'haunted' the system for some time.

Here is a recommendation that may have some obvious holes in it, but it will take me some time to spot them, so I thought I would toss the idea out and see what you think. Since your OS is loaded on a SSD, I would 'think through' a process first, then follow thru with the process and see if the 'disappearance problem' goes away. Simply put, assuming the OS is the only thing on the SSD, I would replace the SSD with a mechanical hard drive and reload the OS from the Windows disk, then get all the updates, at once from Microsoft, then use the system for some few weeks to see if the problem of 'data dropping' goes away. (If you purchased the disc OEM, you might have a problem reusing it, but you can call Microsoft in advance and work that out)

If the RAM is at fault it is not going to 'specifically' drop the names of drives from Win Exp and ignore dropping other unrelated data. But if the SSD is the OS only, and, 'the same stuff' routinely gets dropped, it is likely the SSD at fault.

The SSD should be listed in your BIOS. You could check the BIOS when the computer is working, confirm the SSD listing and in what sub section within the BIOS. Then the next time data disappears check the BIOS (while the problem exists at 'real time') to confirm that nothing has changed on the listing (BIOS and OS location entirely are separate and your problem should not affect the BIOS)

EDIT about 5:30pm: If you do decide to substitute a mech HD for the SSD, a fresh edition of the OS should be loaded and then updated. I would not under any rationale copy the existing SSD to the temporary mechanical drive.

[JeffAHayes19]

EDIT about 5:30pm: If you do decide to substitute a mech HD for the SSD, a fresh edition of the OS should be loaded and then updated. I would not under any rationale copy the existing SSD to the temporary mechanical drive.

Actually, zburns, I'm in even a bit of a "stickier" situation than that with my OS and my SSD. When I built this system in July 2009, I waited until Microsoft had JUST announced the free/discount upgrades to Windows 7 for people who bought new Vista, then bought OEM Vista Ultimate via Newegg for $179 (still a pretty penny if you ask me). That came with a coupon for a "free" upgrade to Windows 7 when it became available ($10 shipping charge), which was late the following February. I THEN followed the advice given by one of the computer pros at ZDNet on how to fool the system into thinking it was a "clean install" by first doing a "straight" upgrade, then doing a second install of the upgrade in such a manner that it appeared to be a clean install of Windows 7. I don't recall the particulars, but I followed the instructions from ZDNet TO THE LETTER, and it worked. I've put ONLY Windows and installed SOFTWARE on this drive... NO generated or downloaded files (although Windows wants to FORCE YOU to put everything on the boot drive, thus SOME of my downloads have ended up there, but only a few megabytes). At any rate, my 80 GB drive is still almost full, largely because I NEVER anticipated the memory hog that is WINSXS, which now occupies roughly 14 GB of that drive by itself! I went through and deleted ALL old versions of programs and programs I no longer need, and still have only 7.5 GB free -- and I just bought Adobe Lightroom 4, which I'm NOT going to install on such a full drive...

I bought a 256 GB ADATA SSD to replace that one, and had been told by others I should just use the FREE Acronis tools that come with the drive to simply CLONE my 80 GB drive to the 256 GB drive. As I'm HIGHLY uncertain I even know where my initial Vista and Windows 7 upgrade discs are at this point, NOR if I could do another "clean install," or would have to install first Vista, then Windows 7 again, I'm wondering if that's "sage advice," or if you're right and I need to "bite bullets" and take my lumps HARD on this one?

I'm HOPING maybe it's just this SSD. From the very beginning, every time I've done a WEI, the LOWEST SCORE of all components was this Intel 80GB SSD, which REALLY surprised me. Even when brand new, it never scored above a 5.9, where all the other WEI components were between 7.3 and 7.9. Maybe I got one that was "glitchy?"
Jeff

[zburns]

It has been about 24 hours. I still do not see a flaw in my recommendation. The advantage is this: If your present SSD is corrupted for whatever the reason, replacing it (temporally) with a 'clean' mechanical hard drive with a fresh version of the OS on it, provides the closest method to a 100% solution for diagnostic purposes. Troubleshooting anything electronic should have, logically, close to 100% certainty for outcomes. Otherwise, the danger of the problem never 'really going away' becomes the story, and, at some point, 'complete replacement or (something close to it) of a whole system becomes the norm'.

The mechanical hard drive is a better choice even over your new SSD, as yet unused. The mechanical hard drive is a completely different and simpler technology, and, has years of proven trouble free success. You are 'looking for a 100 % unequivocal, clear cut and accurate answer. The farther you get from an SSD, the more correct in the 100% direction, the answer will be.

[zburns]

I know it sounds like PURE LUNACY to build a system for HOME USE with 32 GB of RAM in it, but there are SEVERAL SOLUTIONS for well under $200 for 32GB of RAM (I paid a bit more than $200 for my 12GB 3.5 years ago)...

The last 'feature' on RAM that you want is a 'good deal' price wise!! What you want is RAM from a highly respected manufacturer; preferably RAM that the manufacturer tells you is their best (for your application) and is the most expensive (a relative comment) and it must be compatible with your motherboard, as well as fit your specific need.

As a check and balance on what a mfg tells you, presumably several of the 'high quality' reviewers that routinely review desktop build it yourself components should have something to say about current high quality RAM. You can also get good info from Tech Support from the mfgs.. Remember, one RAM manufacturer competes with many other RAM manufacturers, for the business. Quality manufacturers that have good reputations have to be dependable; it does not hurt to get an 'independent' opinion such as a nationally known reviewer. You can even ask a mfg Tech Support division who has done independent reviews on their product. If a gaming computer is the end result, you include 'overclocking' in your conversations.

My point is that you want 'very good RAM' particularly where you have a 'high end', high speed cpu involved (i7-3770k).

[zburns]

Several comments.

After giving some thought to my recommendations regards the old systems, and your component situation in general, these ideas come to mind. Windows 8 is being released on Oct 26. Your timing with your current problems fits with the release of Win 8. You already have your eye on a new motherboard with more features and the current high end Ivy Bridge cpu. You have a new SSD for your Adobe Lightroom; can you add your OS to this(?). (shot this idea down later below).

Load Win 8 on the new SSD. Move your present files (not the OS) onto a mechanical hard drive (I believe you have that also). Save in one container all the stuff left over from the new build including the Win 8 disk in its Microsoft container and tape it closed.

Seems to me, this gets around the existing old SSD that may or may not have problems; perhaps, Intel will test it for you.
-----------------
New RAM issue:


I know it sounds like PURE LUNACY to build a system for HOME USE with 32 GB of RAM in it, but there are SEVERAL SOLUTIONS for well under $200 for 32GB of RAM (I paid a bit more than $200 for my 12GB 3.5 years ago)...

The last 'feature' on RAM that you want is a 'good deal' price wise!! What you want is RAM from a highly respected manufacturer; preferably RAM that the manufacturer tells you is their best (for your application) and is the most expensive (a relative comment) and it must be compatible with your motherboard, as well as fit your specific need.

As a check and balance on what a mfg tells you, presumably several of the 'high quality' reviewers that routinely review desktop 'build it yourself' components should have something to say about current high quality RAM. You can also get good info from the mfgs. Tech Support division. Remember, one RAM manufacturer competes with many other RAM manufacturers, for the business. Quality manufacturers that have good reputations have to be dependable; it does not hurt to get an 'independent' opinion from a nationally known reviewer. You can even ask a mfg Tech Support division who has done independent reviews on their product. If a gaming computer is the end result, you include 'overclocking' in your conversations.

My point is that you want 'very good RAM' particularly where you have a 'high end', high speed cpu involved (i7-3770k).

------------
EDIT -- applies to first topic at top on Win 8; loading Win 8 on the new SSD. The problem with new ideas is that after putting them out on the table, one thinks of 'what is wrong with the idea'. Actually, you want the OS on a smaller and dedicated SSD with additional room for Intel's Smart Response Technology' feature ( SRT about 10 to 12 gig, I think; are you familiar with it?)
------------

My comments on the original system and how to straighten out the 'data dropping problem' are valid, but considering that you have already purchased some new components with plans for more, and, the possibility of using Win 8 as a way around the 'lack of the Win 7 disk' does seem like a 'way out of several problems you presently have'.

[JeffAHayes19]

Thanks for all your help and replies, zburns. At the moment, I'm looking at the following 32 GB RAM solution for the new ASRock MB (after looking at EVERY OTHER MB from $200 -- $449 at Newegg and deciding this one still suits my needs better than any -- mostly because it still has some legacy PCI slots, NOT 4 or 5 PCIe x16 (or 8) slots, which I find to be RIDICULOUS overkill, even for most who run SLI, etc., which I've no plans of doing.

I found ASRock's Approved Memory List page, but AT LEAST HALF of the DIMMs I've checked for availabilty and price at Newegg are listed either as NOT FOUND or DISCONTINUED, leading me to believe those folks in Taiwan have tested much OLDER RAM. I emailed them a question about this and they sent me back an email with four more "solutions," two of which included a supposed 32 GB solution that was a pack of 8 4GB DIMMS -- FOR A 4-SLOT LGA 1155 MB (I replied to them asking how I was supposed to fit 8 DIMMs in a 4-slot system?).

I FINALLY found something in their list from G.Skill that came to 32 GB, but was 1333 Mhz (decent price, as well -- yeah, I KNOW how you feel about that). I would like to have the fastest non-OC RAM, however, so I looked at the 1600 Mhz G.Skill version of essentially the SAME G.Skill DDR3 DIMMs, and it looks very similiar (and is $20 off with a promotional code -- until TOMORROW!). The difference is the 1333 has timings of CAS Latency 9: 9-9-9-24, whereas the 1600 is CAS 10: 10-10-10-30. I'm not certain if that would throw a monkeywrench in the MB, or not. I sent a second email back to ASRock tech support marked "Urgent," asking if that RAM will work, late last night, but NO response so far.

NOTE: I was reading through all the reviews of this MB at Newegg and found one with FIVE EGGS from someone who bought the EXACT SAME 32 GB configuration of G.Skill 10-10-10-30 1600 Mhz RAM I want and is having NO issues (I assume -- he posted several months ago -- I think he'd have updated were he having RAM issues). I've also been to a few review sites for this MB where they had links to buy the MB that ALSO included a link to RAM for it, and in one case it was THIS VERY SAME RAM, so even though ASRock doesn't have it on their approved list (yet), I have the feeling it WILL work (and since they have a bunch of discontinued and RAM Newegg can't even FIND listed, I wonder just HOW they go about testing compatible RAM, anyway. Whattatheydo -- test all the old RAM they have lying around in their factory in Taiwan or wherever??? All the same, reviews I'm reading are showing this to be A CLASS LEADING MB, and I really like the two legacy PCI slots and the WEALTH of both USB AND SATA connections.

As for buying and loading a CLEAN copy of OS 8, I'm NOT sure I WANT OS 8 yet. I actually have Windows 7 Professional in my cart at this point. For the first time since the Vista upgrade, I'm in a "wait-and-see" mode on Microsoft's new OS. I have enough spare HD space that I COULD move all the data files I have on any of my 3 Velociraptors somewhere else and copy the files from the SSD onto one of THOSE. As for testing the Intel SSD, I'm not sure how good it is, but every year I get a new version of Norton's Suite, which includes both the entire AV protection, PLUS Norton Utilities. It's never reported any problems with any of the drives, but it's also possible issues with that SSD could be something Norton can't see or discern.

And moving all my "files" from the current SSD to another drive, but not the OS... not 100% sure where that's going. I DON'T have any saved data files on there, other than some AOL, for instance, INSISTS on putting in a "saved from mail" folder. I DO have all my installed programs on there, including MS Office 2003, Adobe Elements & Premiere 10, Norton, HP monitor and printer software and a few more. I'm pretty sure I know where the original discs are for all those (the HP I'd just have to download and set up again). But I'm still not sure I 100% follow you. After doing all this, assuming I put a BOOTABLE OS on another drive, should I just RE-FORMAT the 80GB Intel drive? I was thinking of using it as, perhaps, a "Rapid-Start" drive with the new MB -- assuming, that is, that it's really NOT the source of much of my current woes.

I think I'm starting to get a bit cornfusled.
Jeff

[JeffAHayes19]

I don't know... I'm re-thinking things again, and looking at maybe waiting on buying ANYTHING new I haven't already gotten, which was the recent purchase (prior to me thinking of replacing MB and new Core i7). WHAT I recently bought, which is all still in boxes next to the computer, is...

1. 4-port USB 3 hub, since the two USB 3 external ports the ASUS card provided are already fewer than I need for external drives I've bought since.
2. A SECOND SATA 3 PCIe card (this time PCIe 1, since that's the ONLY port I have left -- the ASUS card was PCIe 4). This card is JUST SATA 3 (two internal, plus 2 eSATA). The ASUS card was SATA 3 + USB 3
3. The 256 GB ADATA SSD I bought to "clone" my 80 GB Intel SSD onto -- not sure HOW I should go about all that now, though, with things you've told me, zburns... Been going through and deleting everything I can off the Intel drive, and realizing it's got programs on there I never even remember installing (and, of course, this being my OWN build, it didn't come with "crapware" on it). Most are tiny little programs, though, and it's PRIMARILY Microsoft, itself, that's hogging all the memory on the drive -- that, plus program and appdata, but a large percentage of THAT is also either Microsoft OR Adobe. There are a bunch of TEMP files I thought about deleting, but doing that without doing it through a utility such as Norton is just a bit "spooky," since Microsoft seems to run "on smoke and mirrors."
4. A copy of Adobe Lightroom 4, which I see NO SENSE in attempting to install and run on this 80 GB Intel SSD with only 7.9 GB currently free on it.

I DO save EVERYTHING, so it's likely I CAN find the Windows 7 Upgrade disk and the Vista Ultimate installation package, but if I have to start fresh with the ADATA drive, that's A LOT of other software I'll need to re-install, as well... Then again, maybe I'll get rid of a bunch of those programs I'm not sure what they do or if I need them to begin with.

Am I A FOOL to clone that 80 to the 256? Should I start it "fresh?"
Jeff

[zburns]

I just happened to run across this review on what may be your 256 GB ADATA SSD. Take a look and see if it is the same model number: http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/adata_sx900_256gb_ssd_review.html

The reviewer is one of the top reviewers on desktop components, so I hope this is your new SSD. If there were ratings, he would be at the top, my opinion. It will probably be tomorrow before I respond further on your posts. Sounds promising that you might be able to locate your Win 7 disc.

Additional comments:


Am I A FOOL to clone that 80 to the 256? Should I start it "fresh?" Need to think about this more. My methods center around 'doing everything possible to avoid mistakes' regardless of the time and cost (within limits) required. So my first impression is to not clone from the old SSD to the new. I would do fresh loads thruout, if possible.

I am also hung up on the premise that it is best to isolate the OS (if you want the faster boot time) on a separate SSD with additional space on that SSD used as 'cache' for the mechanical hard drives (Intel Smart Response Technology).

If mechanical hard drives are used for real time work, I am hung up on wanting to separate the OS and cache from the hard drives. Part of this reasoning has to do with 'desktop components' that have to be at low reasonable costs compared to 'Enterprise (and up) Technology' which I assume means redundant technology for server (and higher) components that are relatively much more expensive (per Gb, and there is a flaw here which I will cover later).

On desktop technology we are all used to mechanical drives that are very reliable to store data and a separate set of electronics that do 'computing' in real time but we do not depend on the electronics to 'store data'. With SSDs, we are transitioning to electronic storage -- but electronic storage that is dependable when compared to Enterprise (and higher level technology) may be 'very expensive' for 'desktop' use. Such a situation allows (potentially) for unreliable operation along with difficulty in diagnostics.

I will have to add the closing comment to this later -- need to lay it out carefully.

[zburns]

Hi Jeff,
I am not ignoring my return post to you. I want to be clear on what I say and that is taking some time. I ran across this article by the main reviewer on AnandTech, who is also a very sharp computer expert. Here is the URL on his article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/intel-z68-chipset-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching-review/2

It is eight pages long; I have been thru it quickly and will spend more time on it tomorrow. It is about using the SSD for Hard Drive caching. Intel has articles on it also. What I am trying to find is the 'mechanics' of doing it with three HD's such as you have. Using an SSD for the HD cache routinely comes up on the forum. I believe the AnandTech piece has some some lists or charts on the time savings by using Intel 'SRT' -- Smart Response Technology.

Hopefully, I can be more complete on my discussion sometime tomorrow!

[JeffAHayes19]

Actually, Mr (Ms?) burns, I was afraid maybe YOU thought I was ignoring return posts to you, as although I've kept this window OPEN for days now (well, if I reboot, it opens back up when I log back on), I JUST NOW

[JeffAHayes19]

Hmmmmm, been distracted for a few days and just came back and it appears my last post has been TRUNCATED to just the first line.

In that post I admitted "flipping" again and ordering the ASRock MB, 32GB of 1600Mhz RAM, the 3770 (non-K) version of the CPU and a brand new copy of Windows 7, Professional (hope that wasn't a mistake).

All arrived Wednesday, but I haven't gotten around to even unpacking the box, yet... thinking I may try the build this weekend. Considering I spent DAYS putting this initial system together 3.5 years ago, but how much I've learned since, I'm almost thinking it may take me longer to get the old MB OUT of the case than to get the new one and components installed (going to use the same video card, for now -- will just switch it from one MB to the other -- that will give me dual HDMI-out ports (although I actually have that now via an add-on card I've never figured out how to really get the most out of -- lousy software with it). At any rate, I've been running a POWERED HDMI splitter that ran me almost $50 at Amazon for about the past 3 years, which allows me to have the primary HDMI output from my computer split to both my standard monitor and my 55" LCD. When I want to watch a movie from the computer, or just use the bigger screen (which is further away, so it sort of evens out), all I have to do is go into my Samsung TV's HDMI inputs and switch it to the input from my splitter box. My card (and/or the splitter) seem to have no problem powering both a 24" HP HDMI monitor AND the 55" TV at the same time, altough I usually turn off the 24" monitor if I'm using the TV.

At any rate, I guess I really DO need to try to get that build done this weekend, if for no other reason than to make sure Newegg didn't send me any duds.

Last time/1st time, figuring out just how to attach the MB to the case probably took me as long as anything. Gigabyte provided a TERRIBLE little fold-out, B+W Installation manual for that purpose that was so poorly written (obviously be folks who had VERY little command of the English language), and so poorly illustrated, I think I took a day or two just deciphering it. Of course since then I've downloaded a 10MB online manual for that MB that's superb. But NOT including any better documentation in the box than Gigabyte did (even though they provided every part I needed and then some), is probably HALF the reason they didn't get a more serious consideration this time. I wasn't too impressed with a response I got back from ASRock about compatible RAM for this MB, either, BUT the RAM I found I WANTED to buy (that was on sale ONLY up until the day I made my purchase -- $20 off -- I know I should pay MORE for RAM, Yeah, and I should drive a Lexus, too, but I have FINANCIAL REALITIES), was listed by someone at Newegg as having done the job for them (and the 1333 Mhz version of the SAME RAM was already on the approved RAM list).

I learned things last time. Like most of these MBs will "accept" RAM (OC) up to anywhere from 2,400 -- 3,000 Mhz, BUT the caveat is that you may be able to run only 2, or 4 GB, etc., if you buy such fast RAM. I got a great deal on 1600 Mhz. OCZ RAM in 2009 only to discover my Gigabyte MB was set to run RAM no faster than 1066 without OCing the MB (with ALL KINDS OF WARNINGS against doing that in BIOS setup). I tried running it at 1333 for a while before I just finally let the MB have its way. THIS TIME 1600 Mhz IS supposed to be a NON-OC RAM speed for every single LGA 1155 MB I looked at (and I REALLY THINK I looked at them all -- I spent DOZENS of hours LOOKING AT EVERYTHING at Newegg from about $180 and up. I don't bother looking at the cheaper MBs because I know without looking there are trade-offs I'm not willing to accept.

Anyway, wish me luck on this build. I've decided to start fresh with this 256 GB ADATA drive, and install only what I need when I need it.

Ohhhhhh, if I recall I had some questions about partitions for this new drive... Should I do several, leaving room for a Linux partititon, perhaps a small partition for the Intel Rapid-Start technology, if you can do it that way... Should I put JUST WINDOWS on one partition and have a separate partition for all my programs? (Windows REALLY doesn't seem to like things like that, PLUS the size of the Windows partitiion would seem to need to be flexible, with all the GROWTH from folders such as WINSXS.

Questions, queries... posers! Number 5 is Alive!
Jeff

[zburns]

Hi Jeff,

This is important, read carefully, please reply!

Read thru your post; I will have to read it thru some more to ask any pertinent questions or just give comments regards your present build!

Right now, I am interested in this comment by you:
Hmmmmm, been distracted for a few days and just came back and it appears my last post has been TRUNCATED to just the first line.

Just to confirm, you are saying the following: Your last post, dated 10-23-2012, 12:53AM, BEFORE today's post, has had 'part of your dialogue' removed? Said differently, your post on Tuesday, the 23rd, has been partially deleted?

Please respond ASAP!

[JeffAHayes19]

Hi Jeff,

This is important, read carefully, please reply!

Read thru your post; I will have to read it thru some more to ask any pertinent questions or just give comments regards your present build!

Right now, I am interested in this comment by you:

Just to confirm, you are saying the following: Your last post, dated 10-23-2012, 12:53AM, BEFORE today's post, has had 'part of your dialogue' removed? Said differently, your post on Tuesday, the 23rd, has been partially deleted?

Please respond ASAP!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS zburns, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Since I made no personal copy of the post prior to "posting" it, I can't say exactly what, and how much, other than to say that if my memory serves me correctly, the post dated 10/23/12 -- 12:53 a.m. was AT LEAST AS LONG, AND I BELIEVE EVEN MORE DETAILED than the one I made earlier today at 5:08 a.m.

I don't recall if I ever actually checked to see if the entire post appeared in the forum, but I BELIEVE it did. In that post I talked about my flip-flop back to placing the order for this system build, possible issues and concerns, and a number of different things, if I can recall, correctly. Most importantly, I think I went into great detail with questions about IF and HOW I should partition the 256 GB ADATA SSD and what I should do with the old 80 GB Intel M25 SSD (that was supposed to be THE BEST SSD consumer $$$ could buy when I got it in early July of 2009, yet it's CONSISTENTLY kept my system's WEI down to 5.9, as the slowest component, with the RAM, CPU and graphics card all scoring between 7.3-7.6, or so (I just checked again and it appears my now somewhat "long-in-the-tooth" Sapphire ATI Radeon 4870, 2GB DDR5 card has DROPPED all the way down to 6.0 for both business and gaming graphics. I'm actually surprised it took this long, considering that graphics cards keep "marching along." I'm still getting a 7.4 for the CPU and a 7.6 for the RAM, and the Intel SSD is still holding steady at 5.9, as it has ever since I built this system 3.5 years ago -- WAY MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT THERE!!!). If I have similarly low WEI scores with the new 256 GB ADATA drive, I'll just be pissed!

Anyway, I was just about to open my box from Newegg and start to look at what I have... figured I'd see if you had any other ideas first, then saw how concerned you are about that truncated post. I'll admit my system has been acting up sometimes when I leave it on for too long with too many open windows (currently 9 tabs), but I'm almost 100% positive I completed and clicked "post quick reply" for that 12:53 a.m. post. I gather by the URGENT message you posted me, this gives you some great concern about this forum, or something?
Jeff

P.S. As I'm LONG PAST USED TO HAVING posts not go through and losing all I've typed, I ROUTINELY do a Ctrl-A -- Ctrl-C at the end of my post PRIOR to making it, and I SIMPLY CAN'T IMAGINE I would have failed to do that with the post in question, nor that I wouldn't have gone back and tried to FIX the post had this happened... Memory defogging a bit -- It just now occurred to me that I ACCIDENTALLY made one post VERY prematurely by accidentally hiting a key (the TAB key?) at the end of a line, and had to go back and do an EDIT to add all the other stuff I wanted in the post. THAT may have been the post, but I'm still pretty certain I would have noticed this. I also wasn't able to get your updates to this thread just before I read your most recent post and started this one even by doing a PAGE RELOAD. I had to go back to the Primary PC Build forum, then saw you'd made a more recent post and came back here and found it... Something funny's going on somewhere.

P.P.S. -- as I've got my days and nights turned upside-down right now, and just finished supper/breakfast a bit before 8 p.m. my time, this response IS ASAP, trust me. I'm as concerned about "funny business" as anyone.

P.P.P.S. -- Not only do I highlight and copy the ENTIRE CONTENTS of any forum post I'm making (including this brief edit, along with the entire rest of the post), I ALSO often paste them into a blank email form (quicker and easier than opening MS Word), in case there IS a glitch, and sometimes even send the email to myself... One other thing, however, that MAY have an impact on this... When I originally joined, and even today, although I've had an AOL email account since 1996 (and am still lazily using AOL as my primary web browser -- including right now -- Microsoft has made IE so hard to use I can't even figure how to refresh a page most of the time), this site REFUSED to accept me as a member using my AOL email. Of course as I also have broadband, I used the email account I set up with that, which is the same, except for not having "@aol" at the end of it. I couldn't remember my user name or password after so long, and tried to register using my AOL email -- STILL no luck. The site equates AOL addresses to "Yahoo" and "Hotmail" accounts, which I gather from the blocking info are just TOO HACKED for this site to trust. This is THE ONLY forum site, EVER that hasn't let me register with my AOL email address, and I've been active with DOZENS off and on through the years. Maybe there actually IS a good reason for that??? As I have little to no use for my broadband provider's email address, re-accessing my user name and password for this site was the first time I'd used it in probably 3 years, or more... Not a big fan of Outlook and other stuff... I learned the net using AOL, and it SIMPLIFIED a lot of things for me, which is why I'm even still a PAID member although they don't provide my internet access. That, plus the fact that I really have no time to re-direct literally HUNDREDS of online contacts and other accounts to some email address at a broadband provider for which I have even less use than AOL (except for the speed). I also just noticed, once again, that this forum auto-saves posts every few seconds, which makes my prior post having been mostly deleted even MORE curious.

[JeffAHayes19]

OK, so I replied ASAP to the question about one of my posts being truncated or partially deleted... Zburns you said it was very important, and to reply ASAP, so I did.

That was more than 2 days ago and I haven't had a reply to MY reply from anyone on this forum yet. Is my thread "dead" since I bought my components? (still boxed, awaiting some more thoughts from Zburns, as it is, although I'm in the process of reading the owner's manual for the MB).

At any rate, it would be interesting to find out if my post did somehow (or for some reason) get cut, or if what little brain I have left has finally come out of my ears on the end of a Q-tip.

I know everyone has lives (other things to do), but I'm in a sort of "holding pattern" awaiting a reply to my last reply, since the reply was requested as being VERY IMPORTANT.

Thanks,
Jeff