First time computer build

[kstevens67]

Hi everyone,

I am new to these forums and new to building computers. Everyone tells me when I ask what type of computer I should get to build my own. So I’ve decided to do that. I apologize now for the silly questions this new builder is going to ask.

Our budget is limited – under $800 (my wife says under $600), I don’t think I can build what we need and want for fewer than 600 though which includes the monitor and OS.

This will be a family computer and we will use it to store photos, Online Chess training and playing, Creating documents using Microsoft Word and Excel, light game playing. My favorite games of all time are the entire Baldur’s Gate series, Planescape Torment and Torchlight. If anything, I want those games to work on my new build. I’m only bringing this up because I read on the Internet about different users having issues running those games on new builds. They typically blame the Video Card to the OS to Direct X 11. I hope someone can put me at ease and let me know an older game would work with the new software and hardware J

Will these parts work together? Any ideas to lower the cost further?

ASUS DVD Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

CPU Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216

Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136775

Monitor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236069

ASUS MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131813

Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129187

Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139033

Keyboard and Mouse
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126097

Compound for CPU Fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

OS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986

CPU Fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.909887

Microphone: Already have

Naturally I have a couple questions regarding these items.

1. I noticed the CPU comes with a Graphics card. I thought only MBs have onboard graphics sometimes. Since this comes with graphics, do I even need to buy a Video Card?
2. The MB only has a VGA port (No DVI or HDMI). I’m sure I should not need an HDMI connector since our needs are very basic. Would not having a DVI connector affect me? I’m not sure what a DVI connector is. Is that what my monitor should connect to?
3. Do I need the compound for the CPU fan or do CPU fans come with their own compound?

The total price with mail in rebates would be around $750. If I can get the price down even farther, that would be great. I wouldn’t want to go too cheap though since this computer I am going to have for at least 10 years I would think. My current graphics card is a NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS, so I definitely want something more powerful.

All advice and suggestions are welcome.

[zburns]

Hello, kstevens and welcome to the forums,

You have a long list and you are working on a tight budget. That is too much analysis for tonight, so sometime tomorrow I can give you some advice, suggestions, discussion about your choices. But I did want to welcome you as a new member.

[zburns]

I have read thru your entire list once and read several reviews on the cpu processor chip. I think, one of the reviews is not to 'hot', even 'warm', on the cpu. His review tends to be canceled out by this review by 'Guru of 3D' http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a6-3500-apu-review/1

The somewhat negative review is at this url: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4448/amd-llano-desktop-performance-preview/2

Both reviews are lengthy, particularly Guru3D. You will see a lot of documented tests for various reasons -- do not try to go into this stuff. Concentrate on the word description of the processor (and the built in graphics chip) itself.

The cpu does have build in Graphics capability so 'theoretically' it negates the need for a video card. The Guru 3D reviewer deals with this topic in his summary and conclusion.

I just remembered this fact: The Anandtech reviewer tested A8-4448 (a more powerful version of your chip) and not your choice -- does not matter. Unless you have already read these reviews, please do so -- reading and understanding them will help!!

Pretty sure your full list seemed complete, I need to look at it once more. The reviews on the cpu(s) really drew my attention. Back later today!!

[kstevens67]

Thanks for replying so quick.

Those reviews were really interesting. "Simple gaming" would certainly describe me. I don't think I would need to buy a video card, at least not yet. The graphics on the processor seem like it's more than enough to run the games I play. That would cut down on some cost.

I just noticed the processor comes with it's own heat-sink and fan. I'm not sure how good these usually are that are shipped with the CPU. Would it be ok to use or should I go ahead and purchase the cpu fan on my list to use instead?

Also regarding the OEM version of windows 7. Is that the same as buying the OS in the store. In other words, if the computer crashes years down the road, could I use this OEM version to install everything again on the same PC? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but wanted to be sure.

[zburns]

Regards using the factory cpu fan depends on how hot your cpu will get running your games -- not sure about what to say right now other than I will try to come up with a firm comment rather than a guess or assumption. If you just walk into a computer store, I am pretty sure you will only see retail prices in the high $200 to $300; do not see how a store front retail establishment can sell at OEM prices, plus the fact that you are in a 'retail establishment'. Regarding reusing the OEM version in the event of a crash, I have always wondered about the same question. My computer build is about 4 - 5 years old with Vista OEM package; if for whatever the reason, the OS is 'lost' or corrupted, I expect (hopefully) to get Microsoft to allow reusing the Vista disc for a 'second' loading. Microsoft does not want OEM original buyers to use the disc for loading 'multiple computers' each purchased by separate customers. A commercial builder will use a OEM package to load a 'limited number' of computers for 'retail sale'.

For your information here is the Newegg disclaimer on the purchase of Win 7:

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM

Disclaimer: Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another computer once it is installed. To acquire Windows software with support provided by Microsoft please see our full package "Retail" product offerings.
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Change topics:
I will provide you with my final comments on your build list later today as well as 'some of the shortcomings' of the build list. The Guru3d article provided you with these same type comments regarding the 'level' of performance you are buying. I am simply saying you should be aware in advance of the limitations of your build.

[RickyTick]

This 500gb hard drive is only $60 and has free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181

This monitor is a little bigger and does 1080p. It's $130 and has free shipping.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=64579&vpn=VS228H-P&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1027

If you're set on going the AMD route, can you step up to this cpu? If you use Promo code EMCNDJE32, it's only $100 and also has free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103942&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL061512&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL061512-_-EMC-061512-Index-_-ProcessorsDesktops-_-19103942-L012B

Otherwise, I would suggest going with Intel
Both of these motherboards are $100 with fs, and offers you a full size ATX mobo.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128550
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128547&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL061512&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL061512-_-EMC-061512-Index-_-IntelMotherboards-_-13128547-L014A
and then add this cpu which is faster than the AMD you listed above. It's $110 if you use Promo code EMCNDJE34 and of course has free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115077&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL061512&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL061512-_-EMC-061512-Index-_-ProcessorsDesktops-_-19115077-L0C

Here's a video card that will be much more powerful than the HD5550. It's $55 after a mail in rebate, but shipping is $7.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125403

Just a few suggestions I thought I'd throw out there.
What do you think?

[zburns]

URLs you will want to look at:

1. http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/apu/mainstream/pages/mainstream.aspx#7 --Specifications of all AMD cpus on one page. Look for A8-3850 and A6-3500.

2. http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a8-3850-apu-review/1 -- Look at this to see better cpu speed and increase in graphics processors to 400. CPU has 4 cores.

3. http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a6-3500-apu-review/1 --This one you have looked at, but you may want to look again for comparison. CPU has 3 cores.

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APU and CPU interchangeable words for our purposes.

I have looked at everything in your list with the exception of RAM and Keyboard/Mouse. CPU choice can be improved by going to the A8-3850 for about a $ 20.00 difference (look at Ricky Tick post above). By doing this you might (not sure - see later explanation) improve your graphics performance because you move up in cpu frequency. The graphics unit on the A8-3850 APU has more processors than on the A6-3500 APU.

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Regards increasing monitor size, the AMD specs say to 'not to go this high' in monitor size. The reason (Guru 3D) would be that for the A6-3500 which has good or acceptable graphics performance would have 'lesser graphics performance' as you increase monitor size -- you 'strain' the gpu portion of the chip with many more pixels on the monitor screen. Same theory applies for the A8 APU. So the smaller the monitor, the better graphics speed (game speed), including image resolution.
---------------

I assume you are really watching your costs. Your original list picked out in general, the lowest prices you could find given your specs.

The motherboard choice is ok, very low cost and only good for USB 2.0. You might try to look for a mobo compatible with USB 3.0; I do not know that you would ever use it. Both pcie 2.0 and usb 2.0 are sort of outdated now due to pcie 3.0 and usb 3.0. Not a big deal unless you want a component that needs usb 3.0 and assuming you will want to do a later new build in apx 3 to 5 years.

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I am pleasantly surprised that the reviewer at Guru 3D spent so many pages on the AMD Illano series, but he is in Germany (I think). He is an excellent reviewer, certainly one of the best. If you will look at his 'Conclusion' (last page) on the A6-3500 (the $ 80 cpu) at this url: http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a6-3500-apu-review/20

Look at the last two paras for his concluding comments.

As usual ask any questions.

[RickyTick]

Regards increasing monitor size, the AMD specs say to 'not to go this high' in monitor size. The reason (Guru 3D) would be that for the A6-3500 which has good or acceptable graphics performance would have 'lesser graphics performance' as you increase monitor size -- you 'strain' the gpu portion of the chip with many more pixels on the monitor screen. Same theory applies for the A8 APU. So the smaller the monitor, the better graphics speed (game speed), including image resolution.

I think this only pertains to if you're using the graphics from the cpu. With a discrete video card, you could push a lot more pixels. Even the HD5550 that kstevens listed above will run 2560 x 1600.

[zburns]

Hey Ricky,

You are correct, but I get the impression he is really trying to keep the total cost down. The Guru3D reviews using the embedded graphics said clearly superior to the Intel graphics. He may have benchmarks on the AMD graphics, have not looked yet. But as an entry level system, the Guru3D reviewer is complimenting the AMD 3 core cpu very highly. (There was more to this post but a BSOD got me and what you see above posted)

Anyhow here is kstevens budget, from above: 'Our budget is limited – under $800 (my wife says under $600)' This from his post above:
"Simple gaming" would certainly describe me. I don't think I would need to buy a video card, at least not yet. The graphics on the processor seem like it's more than enough to run the games I play. Each item he choose is 'extremely low cost' -- this means to me, stay at low cost unless he determines to put more dollars into it.

I asked him to go to this Guru 3D url: http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a6-3500-apu-review/20 This is the last several paras (the conclusion page) of a 20 page review of the AMD APU. The reviewer in one or two paras clearly tries to tell the viewer (kstevens) the 'performance level of the A6 APU' and he does it in a tactful manner. A good build with decent performance at the entry level. At that point Mr. Stevens can decide whether to stay with the integrated graphics or go with a video card.

If he goes with the video card, he should have the A8 APU, probably and the cost still gets higher. Hopefully, kstevens will look at the review conclusion, and then decide 'video card, yes or no'!