motherboard question

[W. Stumpp]

Hi all;
I am putting together the list to build my first computer. I would appreciate help on the best board for the i7-2700K processor. The Azus family of boards such as the P8Z68-V/GEN3 seem to have all I would need for now and say two years worth of updating components but I am not sure. (I like the UEFI BIOS on the Axus boards,to me BIOS has been smoke and mirrors and part of the secret black arts,never could seem to get it to do what I wanted and was terrified of BIOS updates.) Is there another board family I should look at?
Case: Corsair CC600 graphite white.
PSU: Corsair pro series gold AX 850.
CPU: Intel i7-2700K.
Cooler: Corsair H60 liquid.
Mem: G. Skill Ripjaws x series 8gb(2 x 4-240 pin.
HDD: Samsung spinpoint 1TB.
Note: I have some 8bg of Mushkin DDR3 I plan to use and two video cards I want to see if they will work
before I purchase one. I plan to use this machine for every day computing needs and photo and video editing.
Your thoughts on this set up or possible modifications to look at before I purchase.
Thank you;
Bill

[zburns]

Hello Bill and welcome to the forums.

Here are two links to Adobe Photoshop articles that you should read! http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404439.html and http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404901.html

You might also take a look at the i7-3820 which is competitive with the i7-2700 price wise. The difference is that the i7 3820 utilizes a X79 chipset/platform and quad channel memory instead of dual or triple channel.

The first adobe link suggests that you use an SSD as a 'scratch disk' instead of a hard drive. The adobe links, particularly, the first one is very interesting regarding 'recommendations'. All of the above topics are 'tied together'.

I assume you will use 64 bit Win 7. This means the Adobe photoshop recommendation is that you 'fully use your total available mobo RAM capacity' which could be as high as 32 gig RAM. More comments later!!

[W. Stumpp]

Mr. Z. Burns;
Thank you for your thoughts. Yes I plan to use Windows 7-64 in my final layout. I read the two links to Adobe and you are correct in that all the ram I can install is best. I edit family (mostly granddaughters sports) photos and videos. I researched the i7-3820 on Amazon and Newegg and it did not come up,I will keep looking for that CPU and a motherboard that has the x79 chipset and capacity four 32gb of ram.
Cordially;
Bill S.

[zburns]

I apologize, some misinformation!! The i7-3820 may not have been released yet, but it is soon. It is similar to the i7 2600 (k) and i7 2700 (k) from a manufacturing viewpoint. I will clear up the confusion if the morning.

[W. Stumpp]

Good morning;
Thank you again for your thoughts. I am in no rush,I will be leaving for Florida on the 22ed and plan on only purchasing the case and power supply before I leave and pick up the mother board processor,memory and other items when I return in March. A friend has a costly video card he will give me(when he finds it) and has given me 8gb of Mushkin memory to build on. (he runs three monitors on his machine with a road racing game. I play simple games nothing fancy but want a system to work on my granddaughters photos and videos and that I completely understand down to the binary code functions and results.
Cordially;
Bill S.

[zburns]

I am glad that you have some time before committing to a purchase. Reason being, is that a photoshop system deserves some 'thinking time'; however, I freely admit that Adobe made things a lot easier with their two recommendations that are the subject of the links I provided.

With regard to the i7 3820, this cpu may or may not be of some benefit to you. One reason why it may not be of interest is that video and photo editing may not be a full time job, etc.. Also, it is not an integral part of a business where you would desire to fine tune all aspects of the 'photoshop process' in order to maximize 'customer benefits' for as a good business practice.

My quick assesment of the i7 3820 is that you may pick up some 'speed' in the editing process because of four channel RAM vs two or three channel. However, the fact that you may load up RAM memory to the 32 gig level is probably a much bigger contributor to 'video editing processing speed' relative to the benefits of 'four channel RAM vs two or three channel RAM'. (Whether two or three channel depends on motherboard choice).

Next is the use of an SSD as a 'scratch disk'. This too should return immediate 'speed' benefits in the time required for a 'start to finish' video editing project. It is reasonable to assume that 'loading up on RAM' and the 'use of an SSD' will give you 'far more visible' speed benefit than the use of four channel RAM vs. a slightly slower RAM. There may be slight speed benefit in the i7 3820 vs the i7 2600 (k) or the i7 2700 (k) but again, the speed pickup due to the large RAM memory and use of the SSD would swamp the 'incremental speed pickups' due to four channel and a slightly faster cpu (3820 over the 2600 or 2700).

The video card you mention will probably be usable. The RAM is another story. The RAM needs to be matched up to the motherboard requirements for RAM. I would hope you would decide on a motherboard that fits 'your system requirements best'; at that point you choose the RAM that fits that motherboard, spec wise. All motherboard manufacturers have what they call a QVL -- Qualified Vendor List -- for RAM that has actually been tested by either the RAM mfg or the mobo mfg in the particular motherboard -- I imagine they have shortcuts that speed up this process. But once the mobo mfg and/or the RAM mfg puts their blessing on a particular RAM cat # as compatible with a particular motherboard cat #, both the RAM manufacturer and the motherboard manufacturer are 'married' to that QVL listing being not only 'real' but it is also a 'guarantee that the RAM and the mobo will perform (as in 'working together', a 'duo', etc.) as specified'.

Please ask any questions even if they 'sound' insignificant or not important.

Further comment on the Adobe link on 'Optimizing' the hardware for Photoshop. This is the first time I have seen this link and the article. Some months ago, we were left to figure this out on our own, maybe with 'some hints' from Adobe -- it is significant that they have spelled it out, at last. In all fairness, they were probably waiting for some 'test' results before making such recommendations - computer components for home built desktops are finally getting there regards specifications that really help to speed up the single cpu desktop; this comment intended for the single cpu desktop being able to run Photoshop at a pretty good clip.

Go back a year or two, so called Workstations for photo editing had multiple cpus, lots of RAM for each cpu, etc, lots of hard drive memory; such workstations probably out of reach for home users of photoshop. Now the combination of a single cpu, an SSD and lots of RAM 'outperform' these workstations of just several years ago. Your timing is good.

[W. Stumpp]

Good afternoon Mr. Burns;
My current thoughts are to stick e\with the i7-2700k CPU and mate it to the either the Asus P8Z68-V PRO GEN 3 or the P8Z68 DELUX / GEN 3 motherboard. From what I can figure out for RAM if I want 32GB I need to use according to the Asus QVL is the Samsung 8GB units but the cost at 250 a stick,way to expensive for me. I am leaning towards the Corsair Extreme at 4GB each for 16GB to start. As always your thoughts are appreciated.
Cordially;
Bill S

[zburns]

Good afternoon and welcome back,
I have been looking at your RAM since this am. There is a typo, I think, in the QVL list where instead of CMX, CMZ is used at the beginning of the Part #. As far as I know CMZ does not exist in the Corsair catalog.

There are some other interesting observations on the QVL list which I will mention when I finish this post. But first I want to confirm what I read that made me use the term 'interesting observations'. It has to to with the majority of the RAM voltages on the QVL list and the max voltage allowed on the Intel cpus. So I really need to sort out what I ran across in the QVL listing. The Corsair RAM does work and it will operate at a low voltage of 1.5 volts as compared to a higher voltage of 1.65 volts in much of the QVL list.

I will finish this post up tonight or early am tomorrow.

[zburns]

QVL listing for RAM for Asus P8Z68-V PRO GEN 3 or the P8Z68 DELUX / GEN 3 motherboard.

(Same QVL listing for either mobo). Below are three RAM choices by frequency. Probably in all three cases, there is a version at one step lower in latency; however, you may be better off with the higher latency.

Corsair and a few others were the only ones with 1.5 volt RAM. Most choices were for 1.65 volts. Most likely, the 1.5 volts on the RAM may be reflected inside the cpu, as the RAM output feeds directily into the cpu. Higher voltages than 1.5 may lead to a situation where the cpu life is proportional to the increase in voltage above 1.5 volts. Intels max Vcore voltage is a fraction above 1.5 volts. (To be fair with this statement, I think the major concern was exceeding even 1.65 volts for overclocking. Plenty of RAM sold today is 1.65 volts. The Vcore voltage, of 1.5xxx something, is a very safe voltage that will give maximum life with a safety factor to the cpu chip. Better that RAM voltage be apx in that low range than higher.) (The problem is the 32 nanometer spacing of the cpu chip -- 1.5xxx volts is a proven safe voltage. Ivy Bridge spacing is 22 nanometers; the voltage will drop again because of the spacing, apx 1.3 xx something volts.)

The reference to a page number below is the page on the QVL list where each RAM choice below was found.

The prices for the RAM below will be lowest for the lowest frequency and go upward. The highest frequency RAM should operate well at lower frequencies while the lowest frequency RAM will not operate at the higher frequencies. If you do overclock the cpu, the highest RAM frequency may be the limiting factor. The max operating frequencies for the RAM are 1333 MHz, 1600 Mhz, and 1866 MHz respectively, beginning with '1333' on page 5 of the QVL list.

CMX8GX3M2A1333C9(XMP) pg5
(2x4GB) 9-9-9-24 1.5volts

CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9(XMP) pg4
(2x4GB) 9 9 9 24 latency 1.5 volts

CMZ8GX3M2A1866C9(XMP) pg3
(2x4GB) 9-10-9-27 & 1.5v

I assume you will use the P8Z68-V PRO GEN 3 because only it supports the integrated video of the i7 2700k. The i7 2700k is a better choice than the i7 2600k just because it is a newer product, more or less, exactly like the 2600 except that the 2700k is just now being put into production. This means that any improvements in the chip internally that could be implemented (may) possibly were implemented -- no way to know but a reasonable assumption. According to the literature, the mobo 'circuit package for video support' allows the 'integrated use' of the mobo 'onboard' circuits and seamless transition to the 'gpu card circuits'. -- Definitely an interesting 'concept'.

Before realizing that the Integrated Video might determine the choice of mobo, I did do a comparison of the specs on the two Asus's motherboard pages. So if you want a 'tally' of the differences, I could probably do some kind of a summary, just let me know.

One last comment. When you purchase the components, you need to include a wrist strap for 'static control'. There have been two recent 'possible losses of cpus' -- may be attributed to the cold weather and static. It is a serious mistake to ignore proper static control when assembling a computer. Look for a separate POST on the subject in several days.

[zburns]

The reason I went with the higher latency timings has to do both with the 'lower voltage of 1.5 volts' and a related problem, best evidenced to you by the link below, and, the comments contained in the link by 'kiranatwo' (forum member):

Here is the link: http://forums.mysuperpc.com/showthread.php?4505-First-Boot-Problem-(What-else-)

This link is to a forum member, Jane Doe's Thread. Please look at the last post (by Kiranatwo) on the first page of the Jane Doe Thread. (The following is a little confusing.) Kiranatwo is also a forum member. The last two pages of the JaneDoe Thread, are really about 'Kiranatwo's problem. The problem was solved by changing RAM from Crucial with low latency timings to Kingston with a step higher latency timings. It worked for Jane Doe and for Kiranatwo (read all three pages from the link above, and, you will see Kiranatwo's comments after putting in the Kingston RAM).

I am not at all sure that changing from Crucial RAM to Kingston RAM was important. It is more logical to assume that changing from the lower latency timings to higher timings was the difference. There is some 'additional explanation or knowledge' required to understand the 'why' of the problem -- 'additional info or explanation' is a conversation with Crucial or Kingston about why RAM had to be replaced because of latency.

Anyway, the above is why I recommended the '9 9 9 9' timings.

[W. Stumpp]

Good Afternoon;
Thank you for your wisdom and thoughts. I am leaning towards the delux mobo for the reason that it has a reset button on the board to revert to original bios settings,knowing that sooner or later I will want to fiddle with the settings and with that reset button I can get out of trouble just as fast as I got in. I have a single video card a friend gave me to solve the grafics issue. I need to read your post and its links several more times until I completely understand all your cardinal points. The cost of the highest frequency memory will be quite a bit less then the 8gb sticks from Samsung(250.00) each. I will start with the 4gb x 4 and see how things go. Micro center has the 2700k chip for sale at 300.00 so this weekend I will pick it up. I think the rest from Amazon.
Thanks again for your guidence,
Cordially;
Bill s

[zburns]

I understand your reasoning on the BIOS. I also have an Asus mobo, for four years I guess. Absolutely no problems. Probably I consider them or Gigabyte to be the best engineered / designs. Intel and EVGA also but they sort of stay in the background. Asus and Gigabyte are well marketed. Gigabyte has good telephone support in California. I am not making a 'call' for Gigabyte. I consider Asus or Gigabyte equals 'for consideration' and for myself, I would purchase whichever one meets my current requirements.

Your Video card from a friend -- you should look up the card by manufacturer and part # or cat # to 'rule out' any non-compatible issues. Also, the card has to meet ATX specifications. The new PCI Express 3.0 standard that the Asus mobo meets is backward compatible for PCI Express 2.0.

I have mentioned doing a separate post on Static Control, which I intend to do, the post will make it obvious as to why I want to do it. Anyway, if you have not used a Static control wrist strap in the past, please do so on this build. Static wrist straps are simple devices, an 'elastic semiconductive' wrist strap with about a 36 inch wire from the wrist strap to a 'alligator' clip on the other end. Embedded in the wrist strap or the wire is 'a one megohm (one million ohm resistor) which literally will reduce the 'current' in a static discharge to less than 'one/millionenth' of what it would be without the wrist strap and resistor.

If you are ordering parts (components), I suggest you also get a Statico 'Black Conductive High Density PU Foam pad, 12" x 12" x 1/4", Model # 1950HD121214. Fryes Electronics does stock them and maybe (?) Newegg. Also, a small collection or set of 'alligator clips' 24" long. (These are available in low cost packages of about 10 pcs). Statico is the name of a company; you can find them via the internet http://www.statico.com. The data I just provided is straight off the label on plastic bag one of my two foam pads is in.

The purpose of this pad is to improve the conditions surrounding 'static control' in order to protect your new build, as you are doing it, from accidental discharge of static onto or into a component of the build. I will post more on this topic tonight or tomorrow but I think you will agree to the benefits this method offers in controlling (preventing, I hope) any accidential static buildup or discharge. It is a method I used first, four years ago on my build.
--------------------
We have had two forum members with possible damaged cpus in the last week or ten days, the damage attributable possible to static. With cold dry air outside, it is easy in your house to generate a static charge on your body without your knowing it!

[zburns]

The above post provides a URL address for Statico, a company that markets a 'semi conductive' foam. When you open their website on http://www.statico.com. , there is a 'pull down menu' and 'Products' is one of the options. Click on 'Products', see item # 8 which is labeled 'Flexible Packaging' and click on it. Items # 8 and # 9 are the two choices of foam, one is open cell and one 'closed cell' -- I do not know if one is better than the other. But I purchased the 1950HD. . . version. Seems to work fine.

The reason it is under Flexible Packaging does make sense. Throughout the electronics industry, circuit boards that are 'shipped' would generally be packaged in some form of 'charge equalizing' packaging. Conductive foam has a similar 'packaging' use where 'foam packing' is the best idea but it becomes a better idea when the foam is 'semi-conductive' for the same reasons that apply to circuit board 'bag' packages.

Statico does state the following: "The S1950 Series is a high quality electrically conductive PU foam designed for use in protecting ESDS (Electro Static Discharge Sensitive) components and devices in the process of assembly, transportation and packaging."

The above post provides a URL address for Statico, a company that markets a 'semi conductive' foam. When you open their website on http://www.statico.com. , there is a 'pull down menu' and 'Products' is one of the options. Click on 'Products', see item # 8 which is labeled 'Flexible Packaging' and click on it. Items # 8 and # 9 are the two choices of foam, one is open cell and one 'closed cell' -- I do not know if one is better than the other. But I purchased the 1950HD. . . version. Seems to work fine.

The reason it is under Flexible Packaging does make sense. Throughout the electronics industry, circuit boards that are 'shipped' would generally be packaged in some form of 'charge equalizing' packaging. Conductive foam has a similar 'packaging' use where 'foam packing' is the best idea but it becomes a better idea when the foam is 'semi-conductive' for the same reasons that apply to circuit board 'bag' packages.

[zburns]

Statico does state the following: "The S1950 Series is a high quality electrically conductive PU foam designed for use in protecting ESDS (Electro Static Discharge Sensitive) components and devices in the process of assembly, transportation and packaging." My point being the semi conductive foam is also used in the 'assembly' process as a 'protection against static charge'.

For example, when a circuit board is removed from is 'static protective bag', the board should really be 'slid out of the bag' onto a 'semi conductive' foam pad (or a semi conductive vinyl mat). But foam has the ability to 'contour' and fill in 'space', whereas the mat is flat and may or may not touch as much of a circuit board as flexible foam would. Either choice is much better than 'letting a $ 200 mobo board lay on a table top which in all probability is 'not conductive' meaning it can 'hold' a static charge -- maybe not for long, but it only takes microseconds to damage electronic components with static.

This post gives one the reason to use a semi-conductive static foam pad or a semi-conductive vinyl mat as an 'assembly aid' to lay electronic component parts on during the assembly process. The next post will describe the wiring 'hookup' between the foam pad, the case and the builder's wrist strap and 'how the combination' helps prevent static charge buildup.

[W. Stumpp]

Good day;
I am aware of the static issue and in my mother board,memory issue I forget to let you know that I have used the wrist strap before with a design that you grounded on the screw of the closest outlet plate. I plan on assembling the motherboard on this static pad as you outlined using the wrist strap. I plan on grounding the case first then the wrist strap to the case,case to pad using the mini-clips and and hook-up wire and then proceeding with the assembly. As I indicated I plan on picking up the processor Saturday,(i7-2700K for 300.00 in store pick up at Micro Center not far from my residence)then ordering the balance of the components needed next week through Amazon. I am in no rush but once I start I want to finish quickly in case I have an issue with a failed component. On the memory I will go with 16gb 4 x 4 of the highest latency memory on the QVL for the Asus board. Thanks again for all your insight it is appreciated.
Bill S

[zburns]

Everything you say looks fine.
I forget to let you know that I have used the wrist strap before with a design that you grounded on the screw of the closest outlet plate This is a valid way to get a good ground, and I am glad you brought it up!! The rest of the 'wiring up' plan to include the case and semi conductive static is correct. One suggestion and I should have mentioned it earlier. The foam static pad is $ 8.00; they are 12" x 12" x 1/4"; I would suggest you get two of them just in case you have a need for that much surface area when doing the assembly.

[zburns]

Good Morning,


The rest of the 'wiring up' plan to include the case and semi conductive static is correct I am reasonably sure I have to add something to the 'circuitry'. There probably should be a minimum one megohm resistor placed in series with the wire that connects the Statico semi conductive pad to the case. I will explain later. The purpose of this post is to get this information to you asap. I will confirm later today, pretty sure.

[zburns]

To Bill S:

I wanted to wrap up some comments on the anit-static set up I have proposed. The reason for the statement above to add in a one meg resistor (actually it should be larger, 2 or 3 meg) has to do with the side to side resistance of the foam pad which is considerably less than one megohm. The foam pad is 12" x12", your motherboard likely at least 12" x 9". If the bottom side of the motherboard that touches the foam has circuit traces that are 'ground plane' traces, one would think that the traces will tend to short out the foam -- but I am fairly sure that is not the case but I cannot prove it. Also, the 'resitivity' (resistance) of the foam is really not a large number compared to some other anti static foams.

Your ground from the case to the 'screw' on an outlet cover will 'clamp' the case at Earth Ground, assuming it is a valid ground. By inserting a 2 or 3 megohm resistor in the wire from the case to the conductive pad, you provide some protection from voltage and current surges if they occur. Without the resistor in place, the foam pad would be wired direct to the case (case is well grounded) -- just not a good idea.

I also wanted to let you know that the setup I have proposed to you is exactly the same setup, circuitwise, that I used to build my present system some several years ago. My ground source is different than yours but it is Earth Ground.

I will have some other comments tomorrow that should be helpful.

[zburns]

To Bill S:

Please let me know your current schedule for assembly. I can provide comments that may be helpful to you but it will take some hours. If you are not planning to use the Statico pads protection method, as I have used them, immediately, I would prefer waiting several more days until I provide something of a 'final nature'. But if you need the information now, I will provide it asap. Thanks.

[W. Stumpp]

Good morning Mr. Burns.
Thank you for all your assistence on this build. I am done with my first build and other then minor issues it is functioning very well 7.6 on the windows scale. Your guidence kept me out of trouble and I thank you again. The following is the final parts list.
case-corsair cc600twn.
psu-coesair cmpsu850ax
mobo-asus p8z68 deluxe/gen3
cpu-intel i7-2700k
cpu cooler-corsair cwch100 hydro series
gpu-radeon-hd6790
memory-corsair cmz8gx3m2a1866c9 x 2 for 16gb
ssd-ocz vertex 3-60gb
hdd-western digital 1tb hd-679x-zr
monitor-asus ve22811
operating system-windows 7 professional

I purchased all from the Micro-Center in Westmont,Illinois about an hour from the house. I went there to purchase the cpu (300.00) and ended up with a young man named Ryan that matched all the other sellers prices. I also purchased my desk top anti-static mat with wrist strap and set up grounding to my house ground. The only issues I had was the h100 cpu cooler can only fit into the top of my case and it did not clear the memory moduals,you think that seeing Corsair made all three all components they would fit, not so,had to be modified. The most noise on the system is the cpu cooler pump and the fan control speed (3) has to be adjusted by pressing the top of the cooler. Corsair documention on their products is sub-par and their website could be better. I had a problem formatting the hdd because its an oem version (no disk) so I had to teach myself how to use microsofts disk manager software. My ssd has the operating system on it only for now. Also congradulations (I think?) are in order for being asked and accepting forum moderator status.
Cordially;
Bill Stumpp

[zburns]

Good afternoon Mr. Stumpp:

Congratulations on your first build. From the way you describe how things went, it seems like your second or third build! I like your case; looks like a good design in all respects.

Your comments on the H100 are disappointing regards the noise. Would it be better noise wise, if the H100 were removed from the case via longer 'cooler lines' ?

What do you plan to do regards the ssd and photoshop; from your comment, I take it you plan to move the OS to the HD ?

I hope things continue to go well, and thanks for your comment on my becoming a moderator.

ZBurns

[W. Stumpp]

Good afternoon:
Thank you for your comments. Yes it would be a plus for longer cooler lines to mount the radiator externally,that would solve the raditor,memory clearence but not the pump noise. I think if you mount a radiator on the cpu,run the pressure and return lines to an external radiator pump combanation it could possiblely work. The external raditor fans could be controled by a tiny thermister and scr that could slow or speed the fans to maintain a preset glycol temp. The cooler lines that are on the factory unit do not look replaceable,I do not feel like I want to start butchering more then I already have on this unit(to make it fit mechanicaly). I do like the way it mounts to the cpu ,When I finish up all the minor details of the build I will start looking for a better cooler design. This one works and dosen't leak so for now its ok.
I think at this time I will leave the operating system on the ssd and the other programs including photoshop and my Sony camcoder software(PMB) on the 1tb drive. I'm thinking when the cost of a big ssd gets were I feel comfortable with its $ i will go all ssd for programs and use the mechanical drives for storage only. I don't know something to ponder on a rainy day.
Cordially;
Bill Stumpp

[zburns]

Good morning and thanks for your reply,

You make good observations that others, I imagine, also are aware of but these thoughts are not in the general mainstream yet. Nicer more elaborate cases show up in the marketplace, such as your Corsair case - four fan capable - and the new Antec 300 II case - six fan capable. The more fans the more case noise. Your comments ref the 'cooler pump' indicate that a 'cooler pump noise addition' is relative to the conversation about fans and noise.

I am surprised that both Corsair and Antec chose to have pumps on top of the cpu for their coolers; I imagine the reason for this is to keep 'end user prices lower'. You get rid of the cooler noise if you remove the pump and radiator/fan assembly from cabinet altogether.

There may be a legitimate 'counter argument' to my statement just above. There may be technical engineering reasons why removing the pump from the top of the cpu is difficult to do in terms of 'heat transfer'. Running two pieces of tubing, one for input and one for output into a small housing with a heatsink but no motor, and no motor driven impeller may mean 'imperfect heat transfer' off the cpu -- what I am getting at is that it may be difficult and expensive to design a small compact device to sit on the cpu that operates with 'very little noise'.

But the additive 'total noise effect' of multiple fans and the cooler pump on top of the cpu may be a real consideration for future builds. Customers, ie 'new builders' should ask these questions of the manufacturers and demand solutions.
------------------
On another subject altogether, once you get into editing video with your new build, try to get a sense or measurement of the time delay for editing a frame, start to finish. I refer to the fact that Photoshop will be on your mechanical HD. Adobe claims (I have no knowledge of, or have read, any article spelling out Adobes reasoning) major speed benefits in their suggestion to load up with as much RAM as possible for editing purposes. However, the idea does seem to have 'merit'.

There should be existing right now, some decent technical articles on this subject. As in anything new such as their suggestion to load up on RAM, the details will be quite important!

[W. Stumpp]

Hello again:
Two weeks into my build I start the system and get bootmgr missing. So I reload win 7 do a recover. Now I have two issues to deal with perhaps you can guide me to the information to correct the problems. Windows is treating my 1tb drive as an external drive and when the system boots now I have a choice of Windows 7 or Windows 7 pro. I want to use Windows 7 pro and would like to have that choice only. I believe I need to modify my boot file. Are you aware of a book or web site that can walk me through these two issues. It seems the more I serf looking for methods the more confused I get. I don't mind changing files around but I do not want to fix two issues and end up with more perhaps fatel issues. At least it functions for now.
Cordially;
Bill Stumpp

[zburns]

Good morning.

At least it sounds like you have a 'nice' problem!! My first (and only) question is 'how did the names of two separate 'Windows' iterations get into your system in the first place? You paid for one specific version only, (I am guessing now) so you should automatically via some 'disc codes' only be allowed to load 'what you paid for'!

Ricky Tick may have a better answer than mine above.

Barring any workable solutions from us, 'if it were my problem and I am getting by right now', I would email Microsoft regards the problem and try to get an answer or phone call from them. I do not like 'guessing' at solutions or 'assuming' solutions when the 'horses mouth' is close by!! I would try to get a definitive answer out of Microsoft.

One other thought. Is the price for Win 7 the same as the price for Win Pro, and, therefore, do you have 'your choice' as far as Microsoft is concerned ?

See EDIT next to last sentence!

[RickyTick]

yeah, you should only be loading the version of Windows that you paid for. Otherwise, it's not going to work.

Try looking around at support.microsoft.com for detailed answers on loading the OS.

[W. Stumpp]

Good afternoon Mr. Burns and Mr Ricky Tick:
After installing the third mother board all is well. Micro Center was supurb in their assistence. It turns out the first two motherboards were defective even though they posted at Micro Center. The third board that has functioned in all respcts for several weeks is an Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe. All is well with Windows 7 Pro and the only issue I have now is the Corsair H-100 coolers pump noise. I e-mailed Corsair and thay acknowledge the noise issue but did not understand the cooler/memory clearence issue I had with the radiator to top of case clearence,so I sent them photos that clearly show when using their memory on the Asus motherboards the H-100 radiator will not fit into the top of the case centered without a bit of adjustment by trimming of one fan about 3/8" of an inch. I have not heard back yet. The email indicated I should take it back to Micro Center for a new one,however I do not feel they should eat the cost of this issue and will wait a bit for Corsair to get back to me. Both photo shop and Sony's PMB software function just fine with the 16gb of memory. The processor will overclock with stable performance to 4.5ghz sooo when I solve the cooler problem maybe I will start another. Thanks again Mr. Burns for all your first class help and Mr. Ricky Tick for the Windows comments.
Cordially;
Bill Stumpp

[zburns]

Sorry to be this late responding. Your case and all the components that go into the case are supposed to meet ATX specifications -- meeting the spec directly means or implies that you do not have a problem as you describe it -- the components should work and obviously fit without interference.

Anyhow, it would help if you could post the photo or the photos on this site; if it takes too much time, let it go. I will take a look at your case, mobo and the radiator via each of these components drawings, assuming they are available. I should be able to pull some scale dimensions easily, I hope. Assuming I can do so, I can verify the 'interference' or tell you otherwise . . . . !

[W. Stumpp]

Good afternoon and happy fathers day to you and all moderators.
I have the four photos I sent Corsair. As I look at the issue,perhaps I should have trimmed 3/8" off the memory moduals instead of the fan housing. If I can figure out how to upload the photos to you I will. In any case the pump noise(getting louder by the day) dictates to me a need to replace the entire cooler. I will wait for a bit to see what Corsair does for me and as a last resort I will take it back to Micro Center for replacement under their "make the buyer happy" policy.
Cordially;
Bill Stumpp

[W. Stumpp]

Good afternoon and happy fathers day to you and all moderators.
I have the four photos I sent Corsair. As I look at the issue,perhaps I should have trimmed 3/8" off the memory moduals instead of the fan housing. If I can figure out how to upload the photos to you I will. In any case the pump noise(getting louder by the day) dictates to me a need to replace the entire cooler. I will wait for a bit to see what Corsair does for me and as a last resort I will take it back to Micro Center for replacement under their "make the buyer happy" policy.
Cordially;
Bill Stumpp

Happy Ney Year to all. Just a short post to bring you up to date. It seems that my 3ed. Asus motherboard had a defect BIOS update issue,sooo They issued an RMA I returned the board and it is back now with an updated BIOS. Now the repaired board will not load the Asus update portion,sooo were working on that issue. I am on my 4th. H-100 cooler. They send a new one I install,send back so on so on. The fans still do not fit on the raditor inside the case due to the memory height so by the second replacement I munted the raditor inside and the fans on top covered by the grill,woks good and no butchering to make things fit.The last one is the updated model and so far is quiet and functions as advertised. Corsair and Asus have given me good and professional customer service and I have learned much in the process. I should note the final board is the P8Z77-Vdelux,same 16 gb of Corsair memory,60gb ssd and 2-WD Black 1tb. hard drives. The only change I am pondering is to switch the 60gb ssd out for a 120gb or 240gb ssd. By the way microsoft has been first class in allowing me to keep using my OEM copy of Windows 7 through all my motherboard changes. Once Asus figures out the issue with the update software I think Im home free. The photoshop functions OK with the 16gb of memory. I seem to understand BIOS a bit better and am smarter for the experience.Thanks again for all your assistence.
Cordially;
Bill Stumpp