Considering Building a HD video editing Rig...

[DevildrummerX]

Hey guys,

I'm a self-taught video editor, and I'm considering building my own rig to use for future projects. Of course I know that editing HD or even high res Stand def. footage takes up a lot of RAM. So one of my big focuses is exactly how much RAM will be necessary. My 3 year old Dell system was never intended to be used for editing but it did the job very well while i was learning the in and outs of editing and capturing video.

I mostly do video editing has a hobby right now, and in fact many of my projects require me to capture footage from video gaming systems. So I am also considering including a built-in capture card with the system.

I am currently a college student, looking to go into Computer Engineering so Budget is definitely something at the forefront of my mind. Any build suggestions you guys can offer would be very much appreciated.

[RickyTick]

*Thread Bump*

Anyone have any advice?

[ARchamps]

Considering you will be doing some CPU intensive work, I would recommend the i7 2600K. This processor has hyperthreading, which is beneficial for your needs. DDR3 RAM is quite cheap, so 16GB is probably a good option for you. If you plan on getting a dedicated graphics card, you could save some money by getting a P67 motherboard. This would not have on board video (wont matter since you would have a GPU) and still have the OC ability on the 2600K processor.

What budget did you have in mind? We will be better prepared to offer recommendations. Also, do you have anything now that can be used in your build? Are you open to overclocking?

And lastly...Welcome to the forums!

[zburns]

'my projects require me to capture footage from video gaming systems'[/I]

This seems to be a 'chicken and egg' situation, but maybe not! If you edit video games, then, ultimately, you must be editing video games that are run and viewed with the cpu overclocked. I assume your Dell is not overclocked? Yes, No?

Here is a link that discusses video editing and frames per second and seems to tie things together: http://www.fraps.com/faq.php Here are two quotes from the main page of 'Fraps' -- 'Why doesn’t Fraps show above 30fps, 60fps, 75 fps (or any other framerate) in my game?' and 'This means that the maximum framerate you can obtain will be equal to the refresh rate of your monitor (which is usually 60hz, 75hz, 85hz, or 100hz).' (Gamers and first time builders, generally, will buy the lowest cost monitors, and this is as good a way as any to determine your target 'FPS' rate -- which by the way are not good for video editing, I will do a separate post to explain)

You have actual hands on experience with what you are wanting to do. I am just trying to put together the 'technical' steps in the process. When you engage in the editing process, I assume you must choose a 'frames per second' figure or number to work with. Before you pick a refresh rate, I would look at the major monitor manufacturers and make a listing of the monitor sizes from 20", 22", 24", 26", their cost, and from their individual specs, list the 'refresh rates'. If 100hz shows up the most, I would let 100hz refresh determine my frames per second rate for editing. If 'the monitor survey' shows a lower number, I would use the refresh rate that goes with the lower number or the next higher number.

Viewing the edited result for 'frame to frame smoothness' (no jerkyness of movements) is a matter of running the video at real time viewing rates, meaning, worst case, overclocking the cpu. But the viewing of the 'edited result' at an overclock rate has nothing to do with the actual 'editing' process.

As you do the actual editing at some maximum 'frames per second', you will have to edit a large number of frames sequencially (sp) and test (view) them repeatedly at the max fps (plus the slowest fps you would expect). Testing your work by actual viewing the work will eat up a lot of RAM. Presumably, you would know you have a Ram defiency, if at max 'FPS', the images are visually failing in some way. If then, the images while running at a slower 'FPS', look fine, this would be an indication of not enough RAM.

Assuming the above is correct, then a good starting point is 16 gig of RAM on a mobo with 32 gig total Ram capability. The 16 gig, if challenged to capacity, simply determines how fast you can edit a single frame. If you have to go beyond 16 gig of Ram, then the next step up is 32 Gig because the mobo will be for dual channel Ram and the mobo will have only 4 RAM slots -- 4 gig per slot for 16 gig total, then 8 gig per slot for 32 gig total.

So your build would be what I would call a normal build list using the i7 2600K with the exception being to start with 16 gig Ram.

If you wanted a 'faster editing process', I assume you would then move up to a motherboard with two i7 2600Ks allowing you to double the size of RAM beyond 32 gig total.

EDIT:You will need a good fast video card that allows you to view games in real time at a maximum 'frames per second' in order to 'see' the end result of the 'editing' process just as other viewers will see it when your work is published.

Does anyone find 'holes' in my logic above? If not, I would suggest 'Devildrummer' run this by a professor in the Computer Engr Dept and see if the above logic is the starting point!

[DevildrummerX]

[QUOTE'my projects require me to capture footage from video gaming systems'

This seems to be a 'chicken and egg' situation, but maybe not! If you edit video games, then, ultimately, you must be editing video games that are run and viewed with the cpu overclocked. I assume your Dell is not overclocked? Yes, No?

Here is a link that discusses video editing and frames per second and seems to tie things together: http://www.fraps.com/faq.php Here are two quotes from the main page of 'Fraps' -- 'Why doesn’t Fraps show above 30fps, 60fps, 75 fps (or any other framerate) in my game?' and 'This means that the maximum framerate you can obtain will be equal to the refresh rate of your monitor (which is usually 60hz, 75hz, 85hz, or 100hz).' (Gamers and first time builders, generally, will buy the lowest cost monitors, and this is as good a way as any to determine your target 'FPS' rate -- which by the way are not good for video editing, I will do a separate post to explain)

You have actual hands on experience with what you are wanting to do. I am just trying to put together the 'technical' steps in the process. When you engage in the editing process, I assume you must choose a 'frames per second' figure or number to work with. Before you pick a refresh rate, I would look at the major monitor manufacturers and make a listing of the monitor sizes from 20", 22", 24", 26", their cost, and from their individual specs, list the 'refresh rates'. If 100hz shows up the most, I would let 100hz refresh determine my frames per second rate for editing. If 'the monitor survey' shows a lower number, I would use the refresh rate that goes with the lower number or the next higher number.

Viewing the edited result for 'frame to frame smoothness' (no jerkyness of movements) is a matter of running the video at real time viewing rates, meaning, worst case, overclocking the cpu. But the viewing of the 'edited result' at an overclock rate has nothing to do with the actual 'editing' process.

As you do the actual editing at some maximum 'frames per second', you will have to edit a large number of frames sequencially (sp) and test (view) them repeatedly at the max fps (plus the slowest fps you would expect). Testing your work by actual viewing the work will eat up a lot of RAM. Presumably, you would know you have a Ram defiency, if at max 'FPS', the images are visually failing in some way. If then, the images while running at a slower 'FPS', look fine, this would be an indication of not enough RAM.

Assuming the above is correct, then a good starting point is 16 gig of RAM on a mobo with 32 gig total Ram capability. The 16 gig, if challenged to capacity, simply determines how fast you can edit a single frame. If you have to go beyond 16 gig of Ram, then the next step up is 32 Gig because the mobo will be for dual channel Ram and the mobo will have only 4 RAM slots -- 4 gig per slot for 16 gig total, then 8 gig per slot for 32 gig total.

So your build would be what I would call a normal build list using the i7 2600K with the exception being to start with 16 gig Ram.

If you wanted a 'faster editing process', I assume you would then move up to a motherboard with two i7 2600Ks allowing you to double the size of RAM beyond 32 gig total.


EDIT:You will need a good fast video card that allows you to view games in real time at a maximum 'frames per second' in order to 'see' the end result of the 'editing' process just as other viewers will see it when your work is published.

Does anyone find 'holes' in my logic above? If not, I would suggest 'Devildrummer' run this by a professor in the Computer Engr Dept and see if the above logic is the starting point!

When I said I capture video games I should have specified console based games. I currently use an external USB powered video capture device, but for the system I build I want to explore installing an integrated capture card into the system.

I am not open to overclocking, nor do I think it will be necessary for the work I do, I'm not planning on working with full HD footage anytime soon. The video editing is what you would call an expensive hobby.

In regards to a budget, I'd like to keep it between $1,000 and $1,500 but my absolute limit is $2,000. Also I want a minimum of 16 GB's of RAM, and I am strongly considering multiple HDDs.

I'll try to post up some components that I have been looking at tomorrow, or rather, this afternoon.

Any suggestions for a build you guys have is appreciated, and thanks for the welcome to the forums.

[zburns]

When I said I capture video games I should have specified console based games.

DevildrummerX: I am reading your above comments to be that you wish to work with 'console video games'. Exactly what is it that you wish to do with the 'console video games' ? A 'console video game' is defined (as I read on a specific Wikipedia article) as a separate 'dedicated computer game box (box for lack of a better word) with dedicated software to run games, with both the game box and, actually or effectively, with the dedicated software invented, written by, and owned by a company, such as Sony, as an example.

As I said in the previous para 'Exactly what is it that you wish to do with the - console video games'. My impression is that a private individual is not allowed, by law, to copy or alter them. If you are going to invent new and fresh 'console video games', then you can certainly do that. Assuming that all you wanted to do, was to study existing 'console based games', in order to develop your own, I would think you need permission from an existing manufacturer to investigate their product.

Going a step further with my explanation, below I provide links to Wikepedia articles I read regards my above comments. But I am providing a 'excerpt' from one of the articles because the wording seems to be clear.

Here it is: (Wikipedia quote) United States. As computers and global computer networks continued to advance and emulator developers grew more skilled in their work, the length of time between the commercial release of a console and its successful emulation began to shrink. Fifth generation consoles such as the Nintendo 64, the Sony PlayStation and sixth generation handhelds, such as the Game Boy Advance, saw significant progress toward emulation during their production. This has led to a more concerted effort by console manufacturers to crack down on unofficial emulation. Both country specific copyright and patent law and international copyright law under the Berne Convention protect copying and reproducing of subject matter with copyright protection.[1]

(SPECIAL CASE) Under United States law, obtaining a dumped copy of the original machine's BIOS is legal under the ruling Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., 964 F.2d 965 (9th Cir. 1992) as fair use as long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine. However, several emulators for platforms such as Game Boy Advance are capable of running without a BIOS file, using high-level emulation to simulate BIOS subroutines at a slight cost in emulation accuracy.
---------
Here are three links to Wikipedia articles about this topic, I presume, all from the same author: (1) http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_dvp.html (2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_digital_interface (3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console

As a member of this My Super PC forum, I am simply providing one answer to your post and posting my interpretations of information gleaned both from your posts and the Wikipedia articles above.

[ARchamps]

Let us know what you decide to chose. HDD prices are pretty high right now (50%-100% increased in some areas) due to the flooding in Thailand, so they will drive up the prices of your build if you are getting multiple drives.

[DevildrummerX]

DevildrummerX: I am reading your above comments to be that you wish to work with 'console video games'. Exactly what is it that you wish to do with the 'console video games' ? A 'console video game' is defined (as I read on a specific Wikipedia article) as a separate 'dedicated computer game box (box for lack of a better word) with dedicated software to run games, with both the game box and, actually or effectively, with the dedicated software invented, written by, and owned by a company, such as Sony, as an example.

As I said in the previous para 'Exactly what is it that you wish to do with the - console video games'. My impression is that a private individual is not allowed, by law, to copy or alter them. If you are going to invent new and fresh 'console video games', then you can certainly do that. Assuming that all you wanted to do, was to study existing 'console based games', in order to develop your own, I would think you need permission from an existing manufacturer to investigate their product.

Going a step further with my explanation, below I provide links to Wikepedia articles I read regards my above comments. But I am providing a 'excerpt' from one of the articles because the wording seems to be clear.

Here it is: (Wikipedia quote) United States. As computers and global computer networks continued to advance and emulator developers grew more skilled in their work, the length of time between the commercial release of a console and its successful emulation began to shrink. Fifth generation consoles such as the Nintendo 64, the Sony PlayStation and sixth generation handhelds, such as the Game Boy Advance, saw significant progress toward emulation during their production. This has led to a more concerted effort by console manufacturers to crack down on unofficial emulation. Both country specific copyright and patent law and international copyright law under the Berne Convention protect copying and reproducing of subject matter with copyright protection.[1]

(SPECIAL CASE) Under United States law, obtaining a dumped copy of the original machine's BIOS is legal under the ruling Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., 964 F.2d 965 (9th Cir. 1992) as fair use as long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine. However, several emulators for platforms such as Game Boy Advance are capable of running without a BIOS file, using high-level emulation to simulate BIOS subroutines at a slight cost in emulation accuracy.
---------
Here are three links to Wikipedia articles about this topic, I presume, all from the same author: (1) http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_dvp.html (2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_digital_interface (3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console

As a member of this My Super PC forum, I am simply providing one answer to your post and posting my interpretations of information gleaned both from your posts and the Wikipedia articles above.

You are looking way to deeply into what I'm saying. When I say capture I mean record. I record game-play footage from the Xbox 360 and edit it together into a show for the internet. I'm sorry if I was not clear enough in my earlier posts...

Also, right now I'm still neck deep in the joys of college exams so It will probably be Friday before I can post any of my research thus far. Also thank you for the info about HDD prices I was wondering why they were so high.

[ARchamps]

I just finished my last one yesterday, so I know how you feel haha. I haven't turned on my PC for about 2 weeks - I'm still waiting for my new video card from Newegg. It gave me valuable time to study haha.

[DevildrummerX]

Hey there everyone long time no see. Sorry to necro-bump this topic but I didn't see a point in starting a completely new thread for the same planned build. The build has not yet come to together mostly because I ended up having to transfer to a different college due to a tuition increase. I am still planning to build a computer to use for Video Editing however Adobe has recently released a new version of there Creative Suite. Based on the technical specification on there website: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/production/tech-specs.edu.html I've put together a base build that I would like input on.

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115229
MOBO: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131801&Tpk=asus%20sabertooth%20x79
CPU Cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181016&Tpk=CORSAIR%20H80
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231315
HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533
SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088&Tpk=SeaSonic%20X%20Series%20X650%20GOLD%20Full%20M odular%20PSU
GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130652
Monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236079
Optical Drive: Open to Suggestions...
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate or Professional (Open to Suggestions)

Just a few notes, I'm open to a cheaper Processor such as an LGA 1155 Socket Core i7 or even a Core i5 however, I feel that the the LGA 2011 Socket is the way to go after reading Adobe's Technical specifications for recommended systems. Also I'm a little iffy on if I should invest in a slightly larger SSD, I'm planning on using the it primarily as a Boot Drive for my OS.

Thanks in advance for your wonderful help.

[zburns]

Hey Devildrummer, I apologize for being this late in responding.

The basic list looks ok.

I am curious why you did not choose an Ivy Bridge cpu. Your choice is a Sandy Bridge E cpu so that gets you into PCIe 3.0 motherboard.

If you go to the Asus Sabertooth, Asus page ( this link:http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_2011/SABERTOOTH_X79/ ) take a look at Note 1 at the bottom of the Specification page. That note is a little confusing as to what it means in 'real time' , as in if you purchased this Asus mobo next week. The note almost implies they are updating the motherboard somehow. A phone call to Asus Support should clear it up.

I will go back thru your list and be more definitive hopefully by tomorrow am!! Glad to hear from you again !

EDIT: You have chosen a quad channel motherboard. It will take up to 64 GB of RAM, 8 sticks. I assume you can operate initially with four sticks.