Need suggestions to build my first PC ($1000-$1300 budget)

[cardozo892]

Hello I recently decided that I was going to build my first PC and that's how I found this site. So far I've read some links on MySuperPC and I think I will be using them when I'm in the proccess of literally building my PC.

Basically I'm looking to build a PC that will be used mainly for music production (not so much recording). I will be running a lot of virtual instruments that will eat the RAM easily so I will need a good amount of RAM. It's also going to be used for personal needs but it won't be used for gaming. I want it to be fast and stable also with good visuals since I'm planning on buying a 1080p monitor for it.

If anyone could recommend me all the parts that would be needed I would really appreciate it since I don't know nothing about PC parts and what brands are the best ones to get depending on what hardware category it is. Thank you

Also what kind of tools will I be needing to build the PC? and which is best Newegg or Tigerdirect to get all the parts from?

Budget: $1000-1300 US dollars

[ARchamps]

Welcome to the forums! What country are you from and what currency are you using? Once we get that information we can make some suggestions.

In terms of tools, all you normally need is a phillips screwdriver, anti-static wrist strap (not necessary but recommended), and probably a box cutter. You could buy some zip ties as well to keep your cables tidy inside the case. Depending on where you are located, the best option IMO is to pick up parts in-store. You save on shipping and deal with someone directly. I have found that Newegg's prices are somewhat higher than other retailers but they have great customer service.

[cardozo892]

Thanks for the reply ARchamps.

I'm located in California so I'll be using USD.

[RickyTick]

I generally shop Newegg, NCIX, Amazon, and TigerDirect.
Check out the builds in my signature below. That should give you a few ideas and a good starting point.

[ARchamps]

Micro Center has some very competitive pricing and they are based out of CA. Worth a look! Here are some suggestions. I like to give options and you can do some secondary research after that.

Processor
i7 2600K - $279.99 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0354587
** since you mentioned virtual instruments and CPU intensive applications.

Motherboard
ASUS P8Z68-V - $169 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131729
ASrock Extreme3 Gen3 - $124.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157271
Gigabyte UD3 - $134.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128512

CPU Cooler
Cooler Master 212+ EVO - $34.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

RAM
2 X G.Skill Ripjaws - $44.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428

PSU
CORSAIR TX750 - $169.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139016

GPU
- I wont make a recommendation because it depends how much gaming you will do. I would say either GTX 570/560 Ti or AMD 6950/6850

Case
-Same as above --> see RickyTick's thread for ideas since everyone has their own taste. For your budget, I would stick to the $60-$90 range.

Hope this helps as a start! Feel free to ask questions :)

[cardozo892]

Thanks for the replies I'm going to take a look at the builds and see what feels like it will do the job for my needs.

Another questions since it's Black Friday soon do you guys think I will be able to catch some good deals? I think Cyber Monday is around the corner as well if I ain't mistaken.

Thanks again. :)

[ARchamps]

It doesn't hurt to wait a few days and see if you catch any deals :)

[RickyTick]

Don't forget about "Cyber-Monday" too.

[zburns]

Cordozo,

Can you tell us what peripheral components you will be using by name -- mfgs name and model number (explanation at the end). Include all possible components you 'might' use. I would like to look on the internet at the components and their specs. I cannot give you the specific reasons for this, other than it is to research requirements for audio mixing on current cpus. For example the i7 2600 is a four core cpu. AMD has six core (do not know the comparison to intel).

The reason I even bring it up, is that audio mixing thru a computer is probably the best layman's explanation for 'a valid use of real time use of a computer'.

Regarding the builds above, I would consider using a SSD hard drive in lieu of a mechanical hard drive. Reason is access time to and from the RAM. Your audio mixing output from the computer is in 'real time'. Everything about the audio mixing presumably will be electronic except for a mechanical hard drive. Although audio frequencies are low in cycles per second, it is possible that some delays will occur because of the mechanical hard drive; therefore, best to use SSD.

Last comment. I suggest you take a look at this link for Intel comments on Thunderbolt Technology: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-technology-developer.html

This is a new input/output technology that will allow access time at the rate of 10 GBS. Apple is already using it in new products (I think). This is why I raised the question on the peripheral components -- those manufacturers should be aware of it and they may be planning to use it, or have already incorporated it into their product. It is a new technology for faster input/output. It will be faster than USB connections.

I hope what I have said above is accurate; please correct me if it is not! Intel claims the Thunderbolt Technology will be a 'game changer'.

EDIT: The reason I mentioned AMD six core above is that audio mixing is real time so time thru the cpu matters; however, audio mixing is relatively slow compared to 'gigabyte' speed so I doubt any diff between 4 and 6 core; however, I did read that Thunderbolt Technology would benefit audio. This being the case, clearly SSD would be preferable.

[cardozo892]

So I read into your High-End build RickyTick and the build you recommended ARchamps and this is what I came up with. Just need a little help on choosing the right Computer Case. Basically I don't want something too big or fancy but something that will take care of all the components I have chosen and also it would be nice for it to have 2+ USB 2.0/3.0 Ports in the front.

CPU:
Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070)

Motherboard:
ASUS P8Z68-V LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131729)

CPU Cooler:
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R1 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099)

RAM (Going for 16GB):
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428)

Power Supply:
CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX750 (CMPSU-750AX) 750W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139016)

Video Card:
MSI N570GTX Twin Frozr III PE/OC GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127582)

Optical Drive:
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204)

Monitor:
SAMSUNG S27A350H ToC Rose Black 27" Full HD HDMI LED BackLight LCD Monitor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001481)

Basically that's what I have I went over budget but I figure it might we worth it in the future. Also after reading what you said zburns I'm not sure what Hardrive to get any suggestions (from anyone)?

So what do you guys think please let me know if I will be needing anything extra since this will be my first time building a PC I don't want to miss anything.

Once again thanks a lot to you all.

[ARchamps]

Nice choices! With the crazy prices on HDDs right now, I would suggest investing in an SSD. I am picking up the OCZ Vertex 3 120GB today for $149.99! If you don't need the storage right away, that's what I would do.

As for cases, it's really down to preference. I like the Corsair 400R, Fractal Design Arc, Cooler Master CM690II, and Cooler Master HAF 922. It's hard to judge by looking at the pictures on retailer's site. Narrow down to a few cases, google some reviews (usually have high res pictures), and search them up on Youtube to get a better idea of what the case looks like with components. My vote goes to the Corsair 400R or 500R.

[cardozo892]

Thanks Archamps


So everything I have chosen so far will be compatible with each thing right? I won't be running to any problems when it's time to boot the PC?

I was thinking about the CPU Cooler RickyTrick has in his High-End build this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181015

But it just feels like it may be kind of hard to install haha so I went with yours ARchamps but it will be enough to have the PC running stable and cooled right?

and I didn't think SSD HDDs were that much for just 120gb wow and I was thinking of getting a 1TB at least.

Will take a look at your computer case recommendations.

Thanks again

[ARchamps]

Mine runs great. I had it OC'd to 4.5 Ghz with 60C load and 35C idle. I clocked it down to 4.2 Ghx and now it maxes around 55C on full load (prime95 stress). It's a bit tricky to install because it has an adjustable bracket for different sockets. In the end, it works well. You can also add another fan for "Push-Pull", but it isn't really needed if you don't plan on extreme overclocking. For the price, the 212+ is awesome!

Another alternative is the Corsair A50 (air). It works pretty much the same way, but way easier to install. I helped my friend with this one.

All your parts are compatible so you should have nothing to worry about :)

[cardozo892]

I don't think I'll be OCing mine anytime soon unless I feel like it needs a little boost. :)

I guess I'll stick with the CPU Cooler I chose then.

Also I still got more questions regarding the case basically I want the whole PC to be as quiet as possible and I see that a lot of the cases I liked so far have a lot of fans and look big so I can't make up my mind if to get one or not since I feel all the fans will make it be loud but I also don't want the PC to overheat for the lack of fans and etc.

And unfortunately the Monitor I chose sold out as well as the RAM :(

Also still need to chose the Hard Drive

Sorry if I ask too many questions or write too much. :o

[cardozo892]

I'm king of leaning to get this case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

Would it be quiet? Anything else I should know that I may be needing or changing some components so they fit inside? (I'm a newbie :))

[zburns]

I think you need to make a decision on yay or nay to gaming. The case you have chosen is a gamers case, lots of fans. Your video card is for gaming, lots of heat even with just one card. For music recording and just normal video monitor viewing - no high speed games, you can get buy with a low cost video card for under $ 100 but you still would try to find one with the 'quietest fan' -- make an effort to look for one. If you overclock, that is more heat, higher speed fans, etc.

What I think you are saying is a case with components that ideally produces NO NOISE so that your speaker sound that you listen too, is not interfered with by 'background' noise that shows up particularly when you have very quiet passages coming from the speakers.

A number of times on this forum, I have read from other builders that they wish their large cases (and fans) could be made more quiet. If you want the quietest case possible, you will have to hunt down on the internet, and, with our help an article describing a very quiet case including comments on the fans inside. You are not the only one looking for a 'quiet' system for sound production purposes. So something is out there; you just have to find it.

I notice you are looking for 8 gb of RAM to start with. Depending on how many virtual instruments you intend to play at once will determine how much RAM you need at a minimum. Since you should be using dual channel RAM, your next step would take you to 16 GB. But you need to determine first if 8 gig is marginal or too little for the virtual instrument software you will be using.

Ultimately if you go to 16 gb or even larger up to 32 gb, you will probably have to consider liquid cooling on the RAM (because of the amount). Going to 32 gig of RAM seems ridiculous; but right now, I do not think you know how much RAM you need to support your initial plan for X amount of virtual instruments. But you can find all this out. You really have to find out the relationship between RAM versus virtual instruments you plan to use.

If you liquid cool your cpu which I think you will do and use a low power video card, your fan requirements are minimal depending on heat from RAM. You do not want RAM to be a limiting factor meaning you will accept more heat in exchange for speed. I am starting to say the same thing over and over again, just with different words. Right now you need a good approximation on the RAM -- there should be some data in existing literature on this topic -- we just have to find it.

[cardozo892]

I think you need to make a decision on yay or nay to gaming. The case you have chosen is a gamers case, lots of fans. Your video card is for gaming, lots of heat even with just one card. For music recording and just normal video monitor viewing - no high speed games, you can get buy with a low cost video card for under $ 100 but you still would try to find one with the 'quietest fan' -- make an effort to look for one. If you overclock, that is more heat, higher speed fans, etc.

What I think you are saying is a case with components that ideally produces NO NOISE so that your speaker sound that you listen too, is not interfered with by 'background' noise that shows up particularly when you have very quiet passages coming from the speakers.

A number of times on this forum, I have read from other builders that they wish their large cases (and fans) could be made more quiet. If you want the quietest case possible, you will have to hunt down on the internet, and, with our help an article describing a very quiet case including comments on the fans inside. You are not the only one looking for a 'quiet' system for sound production purposes. So something is out there; you just have to find it.

I notice you are looking for 8 gb of RAM to start with. Depending on how many virtual instruments you intend to play at once will determine how much RAM you need at a minimum. Since you should be using dual channel RAM, your next step would take you to 16 GB. But you need to determine first if 8 gig is marginal or too little for the virtual instrument software you will be using.

Ultimately if you go to 16 gb or even larger up to 32 gb, you will probably have to consider liquid cooling on the RAM (because of the amount). Going to 32 gig of RAM seems ridiculous; but right now, I do not think you know how much RAM you need to support your initial plan for X amount of virtual instruments. But you can find all this out. You really have to find out the relationship between RAM versus virtual instruments you plan to use.

If you liquid cool your cpu which I think you will do and use a low power video card, your fan requirements are minimal depending on heat from RAM. You do not want RAM to be a limiting factor meaning you will accept more heat in exchange for speed. I am starting to say the same thing over and over again, just with different words. Right now you need a good approximation on the RAM -- there should be some data in existing literature on this topic -- we just have to find it.

Thanks for your advice once again :)

You see I'm not going to be doing much recording to be honest this computer will be used mostly for making instrumentals. I would still like it to be quiet but it's ok if it's not completely silent my current computer is loud and it doesn't bother me that much nor does it affect when I make instrumentals on it but I want a chase from that sound :D. I'm not completely sure how loud that case can be but some reviews say its quiet.

Also I will be using 16gb of RAM on it :)


What I was wondering to ask you is about that SSD drives you talked about in your last post. What would you recommend for me to get regarding HDDs? I will need a lot of storage for audio samples and other media as well and it seems that all the SSD drives storage capacity is really limited compare to other hard drives that have 1TB and etc. As you can tell by now I'm not really familiar with hard drives so could you explain what's your reasoning on what you think will be the best option for me please?

Thanks

[zburns]

I will get to the SSD in the morning, but first I need some info from you. To do one of your more complicated instrumentals, I need to know, roughly, what you need on the hard drive or SSD in the way of 'musical sound libraries' or software to generate a sound to your specifications. In other words, it will take a certain amount of data, Mbytes or Gbyte, of 'sounds' and or software to be available on the SSD during the mixing (? right word) process. For each instrumental you do, there will be a certain amount of stored digital data (meg or gig --I assume megabyte always) that will have to be available on the SSD in order to do the instrumental.

So if we have an idea how much data, either in gbyte or mbyte, is needed for a worst case 'complicated and long' instrumental, we can come up with an estimate for a SSD size. Someway, we have to know how much data in the form of software and prerecorded music sound libraries (I assume these exist) needs to be stored.

I am not familiar with the process you describe. What I say above in this post is how I visualize what goes on the HD or the SSD. A 120 gbyt SSD from OCZ is about $ 189. Smaller storage is less $.

I want to check once more the difference in access times between SSD and mechanical HD. You could use a small SSD and load it up with what you need for a particular session from a larger mechanical HD but that is cumbersome. However, trying to use a one terrabyte HD and load it up and then expect fast access times, I do not think works either.

[cardozo892]

I will get to the SSD in the morning, but first I need some info from you. To do one of your more complicated instrumentals, I need to know, roughly, what you need on the hard drive or SSD in the way of 'musical sound libraries' or software to generate a sound to your specifications. In other words, it will take a certain amount of data, Mbytes or Gbyte, of 'sounds' and or software to be available on the SSD during the mixing (? right word) process. For each instrumental you do, there will be a certain amount of stored digital data (meg or gig --I assume megabyte always) that will have to be available on the SSD in order to do the instrumental.

So if we have an idea how much data, either in gbyte or mbyte, is needed for a worst case 'complicated and long' instrumental, we can come up with an estimate for a SSD size. Someway, we have to know how much data in the form of software and prerecorded music sound libraries (I assume these exist) needs to be stored.

I am not familiar with the process you describe. What I say above in this post is how I visualize what goes on the HD or the SSD. A 120 gbyt SSD from OCZ is about $ 189. Smaller storage is less $.

I want to check once more the difference in access times between SSD and mechanical HD. You could use a small SSD and load it up with what you need for a particular session from a larger mechanical HD but that is cumbersome. However, trying to use a one terrabyte HD and load it up and then expect fast access times, I do not think works either.

Well I have some virtual instruments that can be as big as 50+ gb (libraries) and when I was talking about audio samples I'm talking about percussion samples (lots of them), sound effects, original songs (sampling) and so on. I've been looking around trying to learn more about SSDs and it seems like people choose to use them specifically to installed the OS on and programs. So I'm thinking that I could do the same correct? Get a SSD and just use it to install the OS and programs including the Virtual Instruments and just install the libraries of the Virtual Instrumentals in another hardrive (1TB).

[cardozo892]

So I made some modifications to my original choices; I found a case that I may end up buying, change the motherboard to the PRO, found a RAM combo of 16GB, found a cheaper video card, chose a SSD and a regular HD.

This is my list right now

CPU:
Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070)

Motherboard:
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131730)

CPU Cooler:
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R1 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel ...
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099)
RAM:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9Q-16GBRL (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231315)

Power Supply:
CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX750 (CMPSU-750AX) 750W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active ... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139016)

Video Card:
MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127510)
Optical Drive:
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204)

SSD:
OCZ Vertex 3 VTX3-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227706)

Regular HHD:
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185)

Any thoughts? I'm wondering if the Power Supply and the CPU Cooler I chose will be good enough for this pc built? Should I find better ones or change any of my other choices?

Thanks again.

[cardozo892]

Forgot the case here it is

Thermaltake Chaser MK-I (VN300M1W2N) Black SECC ATX Full Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133191)

[zburns]

Sorry to take so long before replying. I think your build looks very good with one or two exceptions which I will explain. Here is a link to a 'bit-tech' review on the Samsung HD; the reviewer just happens to compare it to the OCZ Vertex 3 SSD. If you did not see the review, I think you will find it of interest. You can see the actual difference in access time clearly spelled out between the Vertex and the HD you chose. Depending on which measurement you look at, you see some big difference in favor of the SSD. For example, about 25 to 1 ratio in favor of the SSD of one of several examples. But the review on the SAMSUNG performance as a spin up HD was excellent. Here is the link: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2009/10/06/samsung-spinpoint-f3-1tb-review/8

I assume your storage requirements for a 'music session' are much less that 120 Gbyte (capacity of the OCZ vertex). I have not used a SSD yet, but I would be reluctant to buy a really large one on the one TB level. But the access time difference is substantial and I think you make the right move using the two separate drives.

Your mobo will support 4 USB 3.0 devices and 4 Sata 6 devices. I am assuming your external equipment will have USB 3.0 connections; however, 3.0 is still somewhat new so depending on what equipment you have, its age will determine USB 3.0 or 2.0. (this is an example of what the Thunderbolt technology by intel is about). The SSD will use the SATA 6 inputs.

The one negative is the PSU cable connections. I think the wattage is fine as long as you use the single video card. The cpu puts out a max of 95 watts. Evga calls out for 450 watts for the whole system, as I remember. Back to the cable connections. The PSU is modular. The cables plug into the side of the PSU using male and female Molex connectors. I cannot imagine one design engineer alive that would sign off on stating that a 'plug in connection is more reliable than a soldered connection'. Admittedly, the modular plug in connectors are 'neater' or easier to use when trouble shooting, etc.. You will find comments thruout the industry, some in favor, some not. Again there is no logic for plug in cables into the psu housing.

Your mother board and the other boards are loaded with soldered connections and a few plug in connectors. There is just no logic that justifies using plug in cables into the main psu housing. You choose to use plug in connections where the alternative is not logical. For example, many or most builders have limited or no experience in soldering connections; one would not want to solder the connections coming into a motherboard, etc., anyway. But the point is to limit the plug in connections to applications where they are obviously necessary.

Last the cooler. It will stand 6.25" high and weigh 1.28 pounds. It will gather dust which is expected. It sits on top of your cpu. It will not cool to as low temp as the liquid cooling systems will. If you happen to ever drop your computer case even a small distance or bump it very hard, or transport it in the backseat of your car, or the trunk, or the floorboard, that 'cantilevered' weight will exert large forces on the cpu and motherboard -- not saying it will hurt them -- but at some point, a bump or 'drop' can be severe enough to cause damage. But on the 'plus and minus' scale, it is a huge minus for the long term. Liquid cooling far superior in all respects; should cool better also.

(Probably a year ago, one forum member had his computer built for him, using a large cooler, and then had it shipped. He wrote in the forum, as I recall, that the computer was 'destroyed'.)

Closing comment: Please do not interpret my comments on the psu and the cooler as being negative on the build. Overall, on the components that really matter, you have chosen well. I just happen to have a strong opinion on some things electrical and mechanical and these two opinions are valid and defendable. Otherwise, I think you have done a very good job. You will have an excellent high end system. Assuming you look at different psus, be sure to stay in the 80+ rating (80% efficiency rating).

[cardozo892]

Sorry to take so long before replying. I think your build looks very good with one or two exceptions which I will explain. Here is a link to a 'bit-tech' review on the Samsung HD; the reviewer just happens to compare it to the OCZ Vertex 3 SSD. If you did not see the review, I think you will find it of interest. You can see the actual difference in access time clearly spelled out between the Vertex and the HD you chose. Depending on which measurement you look at, you see some big difference in favor of the SSD. For example, about 25 to 1 ratio in favor of the SSD of one of several examples. But the review on the SAMSUNG performance as a spin up HD was excellent. Here is the link: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2009/10/06/samsung-spinpoint-f3-1tb-review/8

I assume your storage requirements for a 'music session' are much less that 120 Gbyte (capacity of the OCZ vertex). I have not used a SSD yet, but I would be reluctant to buy a really large one on the one TB level. But the access time difference is substantial and I think you make the right move using the two separate drives.

Your mobo will support 4 USB 3.0 devices and 4 Sata 6 devices. I am assuming your external equipment will have USB 3.0 connections; however, 3.0 is still somewhat new so depending on what equipment you have, its age will determine USB 3.0 or 2.0. (this is an example of what the Thunderbolt technology by intel is about). The SSD will use the SATA 6 inputs.

The one negative is the PSU cable connections. I think the wattage is fine as long as you use the single video card. The cpu puts out a max of 95 watts. Evga calls out for 450 watts for the whole system, as I remember. Back to the cable connections. The PSU is modular. The cables plug into the side of the PSU using male and female Molex connectors. I cannot imagine one design engineer alive that would sign off on stating that a 'plug in connection is more reliable than a soldered connection'. Admittedly, the modular plug in connectors are 'neater' or easier to use when trouble shooting, etc.. You will find comments thruout the industry, some in favor, some not. Again there is no logic for plug in cables into the psu housing.

Your mother board and the other boards are loaded with soldered connections and a few plug in connectors. There is just no logic that justifies using plug in cables into the main psu housing. You choose to use plug in connections where the alternative is not logical. For example, many or most builders have limited or no experience in soldering connections; one would not want to solder the connections coming into a motherboard, etc., anyway. But the point is to limit the plug in connections to applications where they are obviously necessary.

Last the cooler. It will stand 6.25" high and weigh 1.28 pounds. It will gather dust which is expected. It sits on top of your cpu. It will not cool to as low temp as the liquid cooling systems will. If you happen to ever drop your computer case even a small distance or bump it very hard, or transport it in the backseat of your car, or the trunk, or the floorboard, that 'cantilevered' weight will exert large forces on the cpu and motherboard -- not saying it will hurt them -- but at some point, a bump or 'drop' can be severe enough to cause damage. But on the 'plus and minus' scale, it is a huge minus for the long term. Liquid cooling far superior in all respects; should cool better also.

(Probably a year ago, one forum member had his computer built for him, using a large cooler, and then had it shipped. He wrote in the forum, as I recall, that the computer was 'destroyed'.)

Closing comment: Please do not interpret my comments on the psu and the cooler as being negative on the build. Overall, on the components that really matter, you have chosen well. I just happen to have a strong opinion on some things electrical and mechanical and these two opinions are valid and defendable. Otherwise, I think you have done a very good job. You will have an excellent high end system. Assuming you look at different psus, be sure to stay in the 80+ rating (80% efficiency rating).

Thanks for your comment once again :)

Like I was saying before this is going to be my first time building a PC so I don't really know much about the connections types and what not. What PSU would you recommend? Also what cooler would you recommend? I was thinking about using the CORSAIR H100 but I was thinking it may be too complicated to install for a newbie like me but after watching some videos on youtube doesn't really seem that hard.

Thanks once again :)

[ARchamps]

I was a first time builder too, so I know the feeling! Take some time and read some reviews on the PSUs. Usually they do more in-depth and even tear it apart and examine it. Youtube videos are helpful as well to get a feel for what you have to do. Of course, Rob's guide here is an awesome step-by-step guide! I had it open on my laptop while putting it all together :P

[zburns]

The best I can do, timewise, on a psu reccommendation is sometime tomorrow;it could even be Tuesday before I firm up a recomendation. If my timetable interfers with your ordering, you could do the order and place a second order for the PSU.

I will have to call Antec and get an update from one of their tech reps on there current psu line. I have looked at the Antec psu line, to some length, yesterday and today as well, the Corsair you initially chose. For each of these well known manufacturers, there is always one or more 'top' electrical engineers that dictate the design philosophy. The Antec line is different in design of the +12 volt rail from a safety viewpoint.

Regards the Corsair in question: In the case this Corsair AX700, one review (xxx ...) made reference to the following:
Over current protection (OCP) for example is present on all rails, including the single +12V rail (which can deliver 62 Amps This +12 volt rail will deliver 62 amps; it has OCP, over current protection, which is an electronic circuit breaker that will (electronically) trip out and shut down the rail at some higher amp figure, say 10 to 20 percent higher, 68 to seventy something amps -- this is the way I interpret what I am reading. I presume Corsair has these psus (and this high current rail ) routinely checked by 'electrical testing agencies' such as UL (underwriters Labs, and, or other similar labs). I personally do not understand how this high current is permitted by the testing agencies. But this is the single +12 volt rail design as a number of other psu manufacturers use. What I am implying is that this type situation is inherently not safe, yet the testing agencies allow it under some specific set of rules.

Comments on Antec: Antec has for years made multiple +12v rails and continues to do so. One of the Antec PSUs rated at 750 watts is Gold certified 80 . For this wattage load, Antec for the +12volt rail splits the rail into four rails each rated +12 volts at 40amps.-- more than enough for one rail to run the cpu and other individual rails to run single video cards at -more than- maximum design current (a video card that plugs into a pci 16 slot is allowed a max amperage for that card in that slot -- ATX standard or some other standard governs this, and, I assume the testing safety agencies have to monitor this also). This ampere rating for each of 4 +12V rails in the Antec CP 850 psu is 22 amps on two +12 volt rails and 25 amps on the other two +12 volt rails -- overcurrent protection for each rail is set at 37 amps.

I highly recommend that you read the following short article on the above subject; here is the link: http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/PSU/index.php

The literature on the internet does not specifically answer my questions and that is why I will call Antec. I have questions about safety, SLI, and the older 750 watt Antec psus and there continued usefullness in this market.

[cardozo892]

ARchamps, yeah it seems complicated at first but looking through videos and reading sites it doesn't seem that complicated. *knocks on wood*

zburns, once again thanks I appreciate you taking your time to really help me here (as well as everyone else that has helped so far too). I read that article and I will do some more research regarding the PSU's see what other options are there and I will wait for a suggestion from you whenever you can it's fine with me I'll just make a second order.

I'm guessing the CPU Cooler I chose will be fine then? If I decided to OC the CPU should I get the H100 Liquid Cooling System? Just wondering I'm still not really sure if I will need to OC but it would be nice to know if the option is there if I ever decided to.

Once again thank you all helping me in my journey. :D

[zburns]

cardozo, I am going to provide some comments on psu and Antec, mostly in general. I will probably split this into two parts and finish it up in the morning. The Corsair has some very good reviews on it regards 'meeting their published specs'. When I reacted in a negative manner to it, my comments were about the modular cable plug in cables and the psu housing plugs. Also, the single +12volt, 62 amp rail.

I did talk to tech rep at Antec today and asked some questions; he mainly confirmed my own answers to the questions. Regards the Corsair, I will tell you what my objections are to it, and, they apply to other psu's made the same way. First the modular cable plugs and their mating receptor plugs on the psu housing. First, there will be some high currents going thru some of the pins and sockets (not all of them but some). The sockets in the small metal cabinet are soldered to a PCB. EDIT: In the cables (psu to circuit boards) The pins (plug that goes to psu) are machine crimped to each individual wire. These are generally reliable. However, you are looking for years of use and reliability from them. A pin(s) or socket(s) that eventually fails to make a good contact can cause intermitent problems and be very hard to find the problem. I am not going to go into what can cause the problems. I imagine their track record of totally pleased customers is high for this product; however, I do suggest you read the Newegg reviews.

Antec makes some psus the same way as Corsair does, ie the modular cables. However, Antec has for years run their cable bundles inside the psu enclosure via a large grommet and directly soldered each wire to the intended connection point inside the box. Logically these connections are more reliable, in the long run, than pins and plugs. Modular is a relatively new idea and is more suitable for very high power psus, probably as a result of dual SLI video card power requirements.

The Corsair has one +12 volt rail with a 62 amp output and about a 70 amp OCP (overcurrent protection) trip point. The relatively safety of this type design should be discussed openly by manufacturers but I am not sure it is. Some safety agency such as UL must be routinely checking such products at the manufacturers plant. I would like to know what a safety agency says about these high currents. I would not buy a PSU with this high rating without knowing more about the relative safety of a 62 amp +12 volt rail.

Please go to Antec Home, under Products, click on Power Supplies and take a look at the CP-850 picture that shows the huge cable bundle going into the psu chassis. This is the system I prefer from a long term and permanent reliability viewpoint.

I will be back tomorrow am (eastern) with a couple of Antec reccomendations. I do not think I mentioned that I have an Antec Earthwatts 500 watt psu, and it has been perfect.

[zburns]

I went thru the entire upper level of the Antec line. The True Power New Series is my choice for a psu, either 650 watt or 750 watt. TP-750 or TP-650. It gives you the wire bundle going directly into the psu enclosure and all soldered connections. It has 4 +12 volt rails rated at 25 amps with OCP set at 40 amps (overcurrent protection and three other protection circuits -a full set of protection for each rail.)

By contrast, the Corsair single rail is rated 62 amps and I assume the OCP is at least or close to 70 amps, maybe more. And then you have the modular plug in cables on the Corsair. Corsair on this psu and the other manufacturers with modular parrot this line -the modular cables allow you to leave some cables out, thereby increasing air flow within the cabinet. Your case has a side panel behind which you can hide all or most of the unused cables.

The True Power series was the only one of the Antec psu lines that 'really just fell into place' to meet my conception for your requirements. Hope this helps!

[cardozo892]

Hello zburns once again thank you.

When I was ordering everything there was a deal for the Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power for only 50 dollars and I was told by two people that it was worth it and it would be good for my PC build so I decided to buy it. I see that you gave me some recommendations and well I would like for you to tell me if the PSU I chose will be good enough for me? If not I wouldn't have a problem returning it and getting one of your recommendations instead.

Thanks again for your time I really appreciate it. :)

[zburns]

I think you would be better off with the TP-750 or the TP-650. The BP550 Plus, I think, is the older of the two series. If you look at Antec on both of the series, the specification detail is much more complete on the TP-750 and 650 than on the BP550 on its product page. I think the TP-750 & 650 were introduced in 2009 or 2010. The BP550, I think is some years older. The only way to know besides the internet, is to call Antec Tech Support and ask a rep.

I encourage you to go to the specific specification pages and read the specs on all three. There are two series involved here. The True Power Series is the earlier of the two and that is where you find the BP550. The True Power New Series is where you find the TP-750 and TP-650, and also the TP-550. You can get by with the 550 watt, but the 650 gives you some 'future proofing' and the price difference should not be much.

Your power supply is one of the most important components in the computer. It affects every other component and it does matter that the psu perform to its specs over a wide number of years. The True Power New Series with the 750 and 650 is the latest series. That means the advances in all other components were taken into account in the design of the True Power New Series. Also, the technology for designing psus gets better every year of two with some advances. Logically, the True Power New series has 'later technology' in the design than does the earlier design of the BP550.

I suggest you call Antec Tech Support and find out specifically what year the BP550 was introduced. The older it is, the older the technology. Again the TP650 and TP750 were introduced 2009 or 2010. Also, please go the Antec Home page, click on Power Supplies and read up on both of the series.

[RickyTick]

FWIW...I built a system last year using the Antec BP430 and it worked great. It's very quiet and the cables seemed to be high quality and long enough. System has run perfectly stable 24/7 for about a year. Not a gaming system, but just a basic pc for everyday use.

[zburns]

Reasoning behind this post: Notwithstanding the post by Ricky Tick and my previous posts, we must keep in mind that cardozo's primary use of his new build is computer generated music reproduction which requires accuracy up to 100,000 cycles per second to deliver perfect sound. This in turn requires very 'clean' input power to the computer and a psu designed to clean up the high frequency 'blips' in the incoming power to a home or establishment.

The human ear can hear sounds from really very low frequencies to as high as apx 20,000 cps (cycles per second). The human ear can hear sounds that have a lot of distortion in it; likewise, and preferable, it can hear 100% accurate sound reproduction -- lets say as defined by an orchestra in a proven high quality concert hall.

A intel cpu (or AMD), particularly the new 32 nanometer products, have a very fast non-overclock speed of about 3.4 gigahertz. As far as accurate music reproduction goes, the speed of a i7 quad is so fast, that 100 % accurate concert hall music reproduction should be possible via the i7. To make things easier for the i7, something like a very high quality Realtek sound card can be used to further improve the output from the computer case MAYBE - or - maybe it is best to not use a sound card and feed the 'case audio output' - onboard audio from the cpu - directly to a very high quality audio amplifier and then the high quality speakers.

How does the PSU affect the above. Music reproduction needs electronics that have a frequency response from 20 hz (hertz) to 100,000 hz (even tho the human ear can only hear maximum 20,000 cycles).

When we listen to music, sound travels thru the air in the room. Instataneously (sp) for complex sounds of a number of musical instruments, the various musical frequencies coming from the various instruments are being blended together in the audio electronics and fed to the speakers.

In the audio amplifier that drives the speakers, for the 'blending together process' to occur in a 100 % (or as close as possible) accurate reproduction, all of the computer electronics must function at a high level.

Bottom Line: The computer Power Supply must be capable of supplying a smooth direct current output to the motherboard and other components inside the case. It is only logical that the latest design of a power supply should outperform an older design. Reviewers that test and write about PSU's may or may not test the ability of the psu design to deliver 'uninterruptable' clean power (transient response) to the computer components.

Antec has its own engineer(s) who design the power supplies, but other outside companies do the manufacturing. But again, why does a company like Antec come out with new products; they can only do so it they improve over the older designs. Antec provides more 'spec' info on the True Power New Psus, than it does on the Basque Psu series. Assuming competant design engineer(s), a later model has to be better than earlier models and for specific reasons. The True Power New specs do specifically mention one feature that affects voltage regulation and that feature goes directly to everything I have said in this post.

Real life example that is easy to understand. Assume a computer / audio system in an office beside a bank of elevators. The elevators are run by electric motors. When one of the motors starts up, the power line is effectively 'short circuited' for a very brief time. The effect from this short is fed into the building electrical system in 'almost zero time' . Using today's later technologies, a computer power supply 'will ignore' that short circuit.

Assuming there are multiple examples of 'short circuits' on the power line electrical grid, the ability of a computer power supply to completely 'ignore' the voltage spikes (interruptions) is determined by its design. Therefore, it is logical to assume that later designed computer power supplies are more effective that earlier models in providing 100 % clean power to the computer components than earlier designs.

Music reproduction demands frequencies be reproduced up to 100,000 cycles per second in order to provide accurate sound in the 20 to 20,000 cps range. Computer power supplies must provide 'flat' -- no interruptions -- in the power delivered to the computer components. This means the computer power supply must be 'excellent' in cleaning up the very short interruptions that can occur in power transmission. Later designs should be better than earlier designs in this effort; there has to be a valid reason for a company to design a newer product.

[cardozo892]

Thanks again both of you Ricky and zburns.

After reading what you wrote zburns and realizing that you made some valid points I feel like I will be returning this PSU I ordered and getting one that you have recommended. My order should be coming in today except for the motherboard that is coming tomorrow. Meanwhile I'll go to the Antec site and read some of the information that you suggested I should read.

Thanks :)

[ARchamps]

Zburns just dropped some serious knowledge on all of us! :P The more you know!

[zburns]

This post is about PSUs but a change in subject matter and it will be a short post. In researching the info for the long post above, there is a very interesting tibit of info on the Antec site for the top two series of their PSU line. The 'High Current Gamer' series and 'High Current Pro' series. First, both series are fully modular as far as I can tell. Near the top of their specification listings, they call out a specification that states 'gold plated pins and sockets'. To me it is not clear if they mean all the plugs and sockets that make up the 'plug in' modular side of the PSU housings. However, it is the 'gold plating' statement that makes a huge statement.

Modular PSUs (as much as I have looked) have all the cables as 'plug in' cables into sockets mounted on one side of the psu case. In my experience, the routine purchase of pins and mating sockets were all what I would call 'tin' plating. When you pass high currents thru what I call 'tin plating', there is the remote possibility of corrosion over time leading to electrical problems with a pin and socket. This corrosion due to heat from high current that can lead to minute arcing that can lead to corrosion.

Gold does not corrode, so the use of 'gold plating' theoretically takes corrosion out of the picture. This removes one very large objection to 'modular' psus.

It also gives Antec a marketing edge over competative psus without gold plated pins and sockets on the plug in modules.

[cardozo892]

Hello again I finally built my PC I've been using it since Friday and everything is great although I did ran into an issue when booting. It would say something about a Hard Disk not being found but then it would boot perfectly fine into Windows 7 and when I would go to My Computer only my SSD would show and not my 1TB but googling around I found a solution to both issues. First I found that I was suppose to disable something about a Marvell detection in the BIOS and that got rid of the no hard disk found message when booting and to fix the missing HDD I was to format my HDD and then it finally showed in My Computer. Also I'm currently using the Antec 550w but I will exchanging it soon for a TP series with a higher wattage even though the PC is running perfectly fine with this 550 one. :)

I just want to say thanks to all of you who helped me in this fun experience of building my first PC.

Now is there anything I should be doing to make sure that everything in my PC is running as great as it can? I ran a couple of tests for example I tested the hard drives with Seagate tools and both HDDs passed. I also ran the mem86 test and it also passed. I was reading about a test called Prime95 but I'm not really sure on how to use it. As I'm typing this my current temp is 32C is that good or bad?

[zburns]

32 degrees C is fine!! Congradulations on completing the new build.

[zburns]

Cardozo, I need your thoughts on the following:

My recommendation to you was to use the Antec True Power New series PSU. In my post regards the recc, I made reference to the two top line Antec PSUs, High Tech Gamer series and High Current Pro series. From the description of both of them on the Antec product page, I was convinced they were both fully modular an idea I object to and would not reccomend. Several days later in reading a review on one of them, I found out that they were partially modular and that many of the interconnect plug in cables were still wired direct into the PSU enclosure, which reinforces my opinion that Antec feels strongly about this older method. In addition, the specifications call out for 'gold plated' plug in pins and mating terminals. The gold plating is a significant advancement compared to 'tin' plated pins and terminals.

Let me skip ahead. You may be happy with the psu you are using. It is probably fine for what you are doing right now. I just felt you would get better quality sound on the instrumentals with a higher grade psu. So I would like to look into the two top end psus this week; have at least one conversation with Antec, maybe two or three. Get all or most all my questions answered I hope.

Again, the point of this conversation is not to criticise the True Power New series, it is to figure out if these two Antec top of the line psus have features that are significant advancements when compared to the True Power New Series. When a manufacturer brings out a new product that has similarities to an older product, the new product has to have some features that represent 'advancement of the state of the art' or there is no point in bringing them out.

So I am now recommending that you hold back a week, or two perhaps to give me the time to throughly check these two models.

[cardozo892]

Cardozo, I need your thoughts on the following:

My recommendation to you was to use the Antec True Power New series PSU. In my post regards the recc, I made reference to the two top line Antec PSUs, High Tech Gamer series and High Current Pro series. From the description of both of them on the Antec product page, I was convinced they were both fully modular an idea I object to and would not reccomend. Several days later in reading a review on one of them, I found out that they were partially modular and that many of the interconnect plug in cables were still wired direct into the PSU enclosure, which reinforces my opinion that Antec feels strongly about this older method. In addition, the specifications call out for 'gold plated' plug in pins and mating terminals. The gold plating is a significant advancement compared to 'tin' plated pins and terminals.

Let me skip ahead. You may be happy with the psu you are using. It is probably fine for what you are doing right now. I just felt you would get better quality sound on the instrumentals with a higher grade psu. So I would like to look into the two top end psus this week; have at least one conversation with Antec, maybe two or three. Get all or most all my questions answered I hope.

Again, the point of this conversation is not to criticise the True Power New series, it is to figure out if these two Antec top of the line psus have features that are significant advancements when compared to the True Power New Series. When a manufacturer brings out a new product that has similarities to an older product, the new product has to have some features that represent 'advancement of the state of the art' or there is no point in bringing them out.

So I am now recommending that you hold back a week, or two perhaps to give me the time to throughly check these two models.

I will definitely wait for your final recommendation zburns it would also give me some time to gather up some cash haha so yeah I will wait for you.

I just want to say thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out here I really appreciate it. :)

[zburns]

Really enjoyed working with you. Lets keep it going smoothly. Sounds like the build really went together well and that you are learning a lot. Keep it UP!!

[cardozo892]

It went well until 2 hrs ago I decided to update my BIOS using the EZ Flash tool in the Asus BIOS and after a "successful" update my computer restarted but then kept shutting down and restarting. It wouldn't even get to the BIOS Logo screen it would just shut down and restart. Thought I had bricked my motherboard so I googled around for a long time trying to find ways to fix it and I think I fixed it so far it hasn't shut down when booting since before it would shut down once or twice then boot into Windows 7 and now it hasn't done it for 5 boots so hopefully it is fixed. :(

[zburns]

Did you happen to see this before you did it? http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/BIOS-frequently-asked-questions

Check out the last statement. We do not see that much 'BIOS' talk on this forum. Ricky Tick would not better than I. When I did my build, the advice was to leave it alone unless you really knew you needed to do the upgrade. Also, it was my impression that, in general, the basic BIOS was ok regardless of the updates; ie, the updates, in many or most cases were superficial window dressing and ok to do but not required.

However, ASUS clearly in their manuals shows you how to update several ways, and they say nothing (as I recall) regarding a 'warning' not to do it. My only advice is to go slow and be absolutely sure of what you are going to do. This is clearly an area of NO MISTAKES ALLOWED!

[ARchamps]

Glad you sorted it out! I had a similar problem with my ASUS board when I switched cases with my boot that kept restarting in a loop. The solution was resetting the jumper on the board and taking out the CMOS battery for about 20 minutes.

Glad your system is up and running!

[cardozo892]

zburns, I didn't see that link before I updated I was looking at the ASUS website for the latest drivers for my motherboard and then seen they just had updated the BIOS saying the new version was more stable so that's why I decided to update mine. I'm pretty sure I followed the steps how they were described in the manual and I did get that successful upgrade message but I guess it was a lie because it just kept shutting down and restarting in a loop. I also tried restoring the backup of the previous BIOS I had since I had saved a copy to my USB drive using their CashFree 3 utility but it wouldn't work, not with the USB drive or the Support DVD.

ARchamps, thanks I'm glad too. I also had to reset the jumper and the bios did appear after so I thought I had fixed it but in some restarts it would also shut down and restart once and then boot into Windows 7 after showing the BIOS Logo. I did a lot of things so I really not sure what fixed it but I did update the BIOS to the newest version using ASUS windows based BIOS updater. I restarted and went into BIOS and noticed how off the date and time was so I changed it to the current time/date and I'm thinking that maybe that's why my PC kept shutting off and restarting even after I thought I had restore the BIOS after resetting the jumper. So far it hasn't shut down after turning my PC on so I really hoping it is fixed.

[ARchamps]

Hmm interesting. I wanted to update my BIOS to the 2011 version (I'm still on 1503). I'm a bit wary on using Windows to do anything with my motherboard. I tried the Windows OC utility once and it went wacky. I will likely use the utility within the BIOS to update (loading the update on a flash drive) and update within the BIOS. I'm pretty happy with UEFI bios as it's really easy to navigate and make changes.

Also, if you don't use the Marvel SATA ports, you could disable them in the BIOS. When you boot up, it will always show the ASUS logo/marvel screen then ASUS logo again. You can disable it so it will only show the ASUS logo once, cutting down your boot time.

[cardozo892]

I also didn't want to update my BIOS via Windows so when I first tried updating it I did it with the utility within the Asus BIOS and I even got a successful message but I guess it was false since that's when I started to have the problem.

Also I did disabled the Marvel controller so it doesn't show that error page anymore but how do you disable the Asus logo since I wanted to disable that since it shows it twice.

Thank you

[ARchamps]

Hmm that's weird. What setting did you adjust? I will take a look at my BIOS setting when I get a chance. I can't use my PC right now because I'm waiting for my new video card and already sold my old one (doh!). I now wish I had gotten a Z68 board haha :P

[cardozo892]

I went into the Advanced Mode and I forgot in what category (Onboard something I think) and disabled the Marvel it had in the category but I still see 2 boot logos just not the no hard disk found Marvel message.

[ARchamps]

There is another setting you have to change. I don't remember it off the top of my head, I''ll have to wait to check in on my PC.