New High-End Build Recommendations

[jnmwizkid]

Hello,

I've been on this forum a couple times with questions about builds, but unfortunately I wasn't able to buy them at that time like I expected. However, now I'm sure I can buy it, and I went through newegg and researched a new high-end build. Would you please let me know if the parts are compatible, and if you have any other recommendations?

Thanks.

Case: COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel/ Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119225)

Power Supply: CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021)

Optical Drive: ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204)

Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697)

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I72600K (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070)

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131730)

RAM: G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-8GBSR (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231459)

Graphics Card: EVGA SuperClocked 012-P3-1573-KR GeForce GTX 570 HD w/Display-Port (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130620)

Monitor: ASUS VS Series VS238H-P Black 23" 2ms HDMI LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 50,000,000:1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175)

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992)



A couple other questions,

Will the power supply cover all of the components?

Will I be able to use all of the USB ports simultaneously? (My current computers get errors with 3 or more USB devices at the same time)

Do I need to get any cables that aren't supplied? (Reviews say that cables don't come with the bare hard drive)

Will each component be sufficiently cooled, or do I need something extra?


Thanks again!

[zburns]

Hi jnmwizkid,

I apologize for the late reply; first looked at your post late last nite and this is my first chance to say anything. Your choice of motherboards is good 'as advancing state of the art' with the Z68 chipset. ASUS is a good choice for a new model mobo and it has been on the market for some months now so hopefully any bugs have been worked out. PSU choice is fine but I want to look at it some more because of the 'Bronze' label which probably has something to do with efficiency and that 'chain of thought feeds into overclocking and your GTX 570 -- however, the GTX570 recs on PSU is less than 750 watts. The 'Bronze' label may mean a 70 % efficiency rating at full output -- I just want to verify what Bronze means in this regard -- it is important.

I tried to check your choice of RAM against a Asus QVL (qualified vendors list) -- such a check verifies that the RAM choice has an OK from Asus for compatibility. I could not get anywhere with the Asus QVL on the mobo website (happened before with Asus) so I want to look some more. Worst case, you have to call Asus USA tech support, and get them to tell you that your choice of RAM is ok for your choice of ASUS mobo; I will say more about this later this weekend.

Choice of cpu is the 'best' choice, no question.

I think you will get the cables you need in the Asus mobo package.

Last of my points is that I do not see any cooling device for the cpu. I would not use the cooler fan supplied with the cpu. Rather I would recommend one of Corsair liquid cooled heat sinks for cpus. I will give you a Corsair number later in my next post.

Regards your USB ports question, your problem may be with your older computers and so called 'headroom' for running multi usb ports simultaneously. I do not know how you check this out for older computers, but Asus might be able to answer your question as to the new mobo and the max capacity of USB 2.0 and separately USB 3.0.

Quick Edit: I assume you will order from Newegg. If they mention 'Open Box' components, I believe this means 'components that have been returned to them for a reason. Newegg has then tested them, etc., and offers them for a reduced price to the customer. For a high end build such as you are doing, there is no way I would recommend you agree to take any product from any source that is 'open box'. You want all your components to come in 'factory sealed boxes' from the original manufacturer. All Newegg does is receive them in, store them and reship them to customers -- they are never opened once the product leaves the original manufacturer.

[jnmwizkid]

Hi zburns,

Your reply was speedy in my opinion, thanks.

Thank you for checking out my build. Let me know what you find out about the PSU and RAM. Although, the "details" page for the RAM says that it is compatible with Intel Z68, is there still a chance that it will not work with the specific motherboard?

As for the cooling, how does this item look: CORSAIR CAFA70 120mm Dual-Fan CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181011)
Is this similar to what you were talking about? (It's on sale at the moment, too)

Newegg terms open-box items as "recertified", right? I made sure to steer clear from those. Thanks for the tip, though, and I'll make sure newegg doesn't try to send me an open-box item during checkout or something.

Again, thank you for helping me with these decisions.

[jnmwizkid]

Oh no! It appears that over the last 2 days the video card went out of stock.

The specs on this card look exactly the same, aside from it having 1 mini HDMI instead of 1 HDMI and 1 Displayport. It is also slightly larger. Is it just as good, though? What would I be losing or gaining? (The extra year in warranty doesn't bother me)

EVGA SuperClocked 012-P3-1572-TR GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130614)

[zburns]

I looked at the Corsair PSU spec page. The Bronze label goes to a 80 percent efficiency rating which is not bad. Even on this I want to look at it one more time.

The monitor has HDMI standard size output plug. The substitution video card has a mini HDMI output plug. Assuming it is best to use the HDMI monitor plug, you would then have to use a adapter plug to get to the mini size for the video card.

I went ahead and did this post to get you to looking at the video connectors on the monitor and the video card. If your monitor has HDMI standard size plug, you want the same size mating plug on the video card -- no compromise by using an adapter plug -- bad idea for a new system. I hope to add some more comments on this later today.

More later today on the video card and the psu, I hope!!

Open box is a solution to a 'return' situation that in effect says that 'end user novices' may have handled the product with unknown consequences -- I understand why it is done, but for a new system I would not use this method for components.

[jnmwizkid]

Okay, this video card has slightly lower specs (about 17/34 mHz less core/shader), uses 50W more power, and is slightly larger. The lower specs are probably negligible, so what do you think?
GIGABYTE GV-N570OC-13I Rev2.0 GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125384

Also, is the CPU cooler I mentioned earlier good?

Thanks for researching about the PSU; will the added 50W from the new video card influence that choice?

As a side note, I'd like to get this ordered tonight, to prevent any more stock changes and what not, but don't feel pressured if you think that we need to tweak the build some more. I'd rather get it right the first time and get it later than to get it earlier and wrong.

Thanks :)

[jnmwizkid]

It seems that the RAM has gone out of stock in the last couple hours :(. This seems like an exact substitute, what do you think?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231431

[zburns]

I suggest or recommend that you wait until tomorrow to order or even Tuesday.

The only reviews to go by on the Gigabyte 570 are those on the Newegg site for that card. They are excellent reviews as far as they go; however, they are from users and not professional reviewers who routinely review and test at length computer components for 'build it yourself' folks like those on this forum, etc.. All that said, I believe Gigabyte has certainly proved that they do build great products for computers. You can probably trust them, buy the product and get the results you read about in the Newegg site for that card. You can also call Newegg and ask them when they expect new product for the Evga 570.

On my earlier posts, I did forget about the CPU cooler. What I meant by liquid cooling is a cpu heat transfer heat sink, liquid cooled, using a closed system where the coolant is circulated thru the heat transfer heat sink back to a radiator with a fan on it. This is vastily different that the large 'finned air coolers'. You will need to get yourself up to speed on this concept to see if you like the idea.

The problem with the large and heavy finned radiators that sit atop the cpu is (my opinion) they are just so big, occupy so much space, and they are relatively heavy. During the life of your new computer build, if you use a large, tall finned ambient air radiator cooled device you will find several problems or potential problems. One is that the fins are a wonderful attractor of dust which you must clean out periodically or the temps go up.

The serious problem is if you pick up your case to transport it and accidently bump it hard or worse, drop it some short distance, the tall finned radiator cooler sitting on top of the cpu will exert a substantial torque (force) on the cpu and the motherboard directly under the cpu. Whether it causes immediate damage to the cpu and motherboard would only be known by whether the computer worked when you hooked it back up. Worse, say this happened, and problems developed later with the mobo or cpu, leading to expensive component replacement, down time, etc. -- all this related to the large finned cooler exerting torque forces on the mobo and / or the cpu.

There was a report about one year ago from a forum member who built or had built a computer with such a cooler, had it shipped point to point and the end result was destruction of the computer. This experience was not the trigger for my recommending against these large coolers; I had already been doing it for some months prior to this report appearing on these forums. Anyhow, Ricky Tick on this forum, consistently recommends 'liquid cooling' such as I describe above. I do also. There is no logic that would compel me to recommend such a large finned cooler.

Go to the Corsair Home site and look up under products, 'liquid cooling'. Model numbers, I believe, are H 40, H 60, H 80 and H 100. Read up on them and see what you think. They make a lot more sense than the big finned radiators.

[jnmwizkid]

I checked out the liquid cooling, and I agree. I like the idea of this system better. Here's the one I chose:

CORSAIR CWCH60 Hydro Series H60 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181015&Tpk=H60

I will wait until tomorrow to order, but why do you suggest that?

Thanks for the advice on the video card. I will likely go with the Gigabyte, but I'll do some more research on it.

[zburns]

Reference your post of a few minutes ago regards RAM. I suggest you call ASUS USA support and get them to provide you with a list of cat #s from there QVL -- Qualified Vendors List for RAM tested specifically for the Asus mobo you plan to use. Conversely you can call the name brand RAM manufacturers in the US or look on their websites for RAM approved for the ASUS board. Hopefully Asus can give you a website to go to that will have this list clearly spelled out for you -- that is generally the case for most mobo manufacturers. Exactly why the vendors request a purchaser do this eludes me; however, it is a consistent practice and must have some practical meaning to getting known and proven RAM memory sticks that have been tested and are known to work in specific mobos.

As you build your computer, both from the planning standpoint and the actual, you want 'NO MISTAKES' -- part of this 'no mistakes' philosophy is getting components that you know are compatible. Presently, and this has been the case for a year or two, both mobo manufacturers and RAM manufacturers can tell you thru QVL (or just over the phone) what RAM works in what motherboard.

Most of the time I have been able to take the mobo part #, go to the home site of the mobo mfg, look up the mobo by number, website for that mobo opens up with three or four links on the site. One of the links is for a 'Memory' section that lists all tested or acceptable RAM both by size and RAM manufacturer for that particular motherboard that I am interested in. My point is that the mobo mfgs website, in general, does have this data generally available -- this is industry wide. Sometimes the data is not there in the quanity that one thinks should be there -- may be the case with Asus on your mobo -- in this case you call the manufacturer and see what he says.

The QVL --Qualified Vendor List -- for motherboard specific cat numbers is what you are looking for. I have seen these list two or three pages long depending on the mobo and the manufacturer. They do exist and they do provide you with 'certainty' regards RAM choice.

When I suggested the liquid cooling, I had my thoughts on the H 60 or the H 80. The H 80 is relatively new but it is the latest in this series of coolers and has greater cooling capacity than the H60.

Reason to wait until tomorrow:This post was part of the one above your post, so I split my post. The RAM is not settled at least from my perspective -- you have to use a QVL to determine the RAM or you should use it. This post addresses the RAM.

[jnmwizkid]

I found the QVL for the motherboard in this build, thanks for pointing that out again -- I searched for it when you first mentioned it but I couldn't find it until now. (http://support.asus.com/download.aspx?SLanguage=en&p=1&s=39&m=P8Z68-V%20PRO&os=30&hashedid=JjlGHLJGJPFfGCFA)

The lowest CAS Latency RAM that this supports as a 4G stick under DDR3 1600 is 8, so I chose this RAM (copied and pasted the model number into newegg)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233147&Tpk=CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8

The reviews are great, and I found a good reviewer that used it in the motherboard that I'm getting.


I looked at the H80 on newegg, and it turns out that it's on sale right now. An extra 20 dollars (which is actually nearly what I'm saving with the new ram) is worth the H80 over the H60 imo. - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181016

EDIT:
This morning, the video card went out of stock, again.. I searched around and I found my initial choice (-AR signifying lifetime warranty instead of -KR signifying 3yrs) on Amazon.com for the same price, free shipping. They have 17 in stock, so hopefully it won't go out of stock before tonight.

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Superclocked-Lifetime-Warranty-012-P3-1573-AR/dp/B004SMUT70/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_2

[RickyTick]

I saw the i7 2600k for $299.99 on NCIX. I also saw a MSI GTX570 on sale for $260.
Check it here. http://us.ncix.com/promo/?webid=USWickedSale2011
Sale ends 10/26

[jnmwizkid]

Thanks Ricky--that's a great deal on the graphics card. But unfortunately, the only card that's on sale has the mini-HDMI instead of the regular HDMI.

I appreciate the reference!

[jnmwizkid]

It's pretty late and it doesn't seem like zburns is going to get a chance to view the forums today, I'm going to go ahead and buy the graphics card so that it doesn't go out of stock again (it's already down to 7 from 17 this morning).

Ricky (or someone else), if you see this before zburns does, would you mind looking over the current status of my build in our discussion and telling me your thoughts?

Thanks!

[zburns]

Sorry for my late entry today. The only item I had any concern about, even yesterday, was the choice of RAM. You did find the correct QVL list which I did not find yesterday. I looked at and double checked your choice. It seems like an excellent choice; particularly I like the low voltage of 1.5 volts -- be sure you pay attention to setting this voltage to 1.5 when you do the build. The 1.5 matters because the i7 cpu is very sensitive to the maximum RAM voltage not exceeding a value not much higher than the 1.5 v (this comment comes from some reading on the i7 middle of last year. I do not remember the exact voltage limit, but it is a little above 1.5. )

You took quick action on the cooler -- the H80 last nite. You did it all much faster than I expected. Very glad you can get the original video card!!

It really looks overall like a great build!!

[jnmwizkid]

Thanks for the voltage tip, I'll watch out for that. I'm going to go ahead and place the orders now (what an exciting moment).

Thanks so much for your support!
I'll let you know how it goes on Thursday (opting-in for the free trial of 2 day shipping)

[jnmwizkid]

Hi again..

I'm really concerned about something. I had asked another friend who is a professional, reliable source for computers as well, but I didn't know him too well and I wasn't sure he was going to reply. He replied after I ordered the items, and here are his comments on my selections:

GPU: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SMUT70/ref=ox_ya_os_product

The 570 series are ok GPU units but are a bear on the system without proper cooling. They also draw a good bit of power.

Cooler: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051U7HMI/ref=ox_ya_os_product

With NO GPU cooling, your system will begin to experience a lot of issues with overheating on the GPU. This was a very poor choice not to cool the GPU as well as the CPU

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119225

This case is a waste of money. The only cases worth the money are Antec, they ensure very good air flow and are the best on the market.

Monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233147

Corsair memory is average at best and is know to have heating issues. OCZ is a better choice. Also, did you get memory spreaders to help deal with the heat?

Optical: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

Not getting a BluRay drive is going to cost you in the long run. In the short term, you limit the ability to rip movies from the highest level of media on the market. //doesn't bother me too much

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070

The Intel processors are over priced. You would have been better off getting an AMD Phenom X6 processor. It will handle data much better than the I7. //I'm loyal to Intel, but...?

OS: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992

Unless you have a specific need for a feature in the W7 Professional build, Home Premium would have been a better choice. //doesn't bother me

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697

Seagate Drives are JUNK! always have have been always will be. Go with the Green Western Digital drives, less power, less heat, better performance.

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021

This is an OK power supply. I would have probably gone a little higher power, like 800, but this should be ok. Did you order high end cables or a cable wrap system to keep the power cables neat and to maximize airflow to prevent over heating and dust collection?

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131730

Nice Choice! ASUS is the best board maker in the market.

He also mentioned a temperature monitoring system with an interface--but couldn't that be handled with software instead?


---
All of the items have already been shipped and are in transit.. The items from Amazon wouldn't need to be returned, but it seems like newegg charges a 15% restocking fee for returned items.

[zburns]

I just saw your post and the comments. I hope Ricky Tick has seen this and will reply. I will have a few comments soon and more early in the morning. I would not be overly concerned.

[jnmwizkid]

Alright.. I hope it will resolve easily. thanks

[zburns]

First, if I were asked to respond to the list that you ordered, I would never respond in the manner that I see above. Your choice of GPU card will run hot according to what I have read but it is supposed run hot at max output. You will have it in a large case with lots of fans. The cpu is liquid cooled so that heat from it will not add heat to the case. The video card is the only other main heat generator inside the case. The comments on the case are uncalled for -- it is a popular case and many forum members have used that case. I cannot speak to the issue of Corsair RAM, but I view them as a quality company. They know their products, and, hopefully they are attentive to consistent high quality.

The intel processors are perfectly fine and probably preferred for many reasons. You are getting a quad core. The AMD mentioned has six cores and it is just not talked about or used that much on this forum, to my knowledge. The Intel i7 cpus are on a 32 nanometer platform -- the reviews were outstanding a year ago when they were released and I would have no hesitation about using it based on the reviews.

The only comment I would consider giving any credence is on the Seagate Drive. Most drives used by forum members are WD ( I think ). Green is the higher end WD model. But none of what I just said is grounds for coming down hard on Seagate. They have been around a long time; the nature of any manufacturing company is to manufacture products that do not have problems -- the costs to a company that produces bad products is loss of reputation, etc.. I would have to read two or three negative reviews on Seagate before I could 'not' go along with their products.

Companies cannot stay in business over a long period of time if their reputation is 'poor products'.

Anyhow, that is it for tonight. I will have some suggestions in the morning.

[RickyTick]

The only comment I would consider giving any credence is on the Seagate Drive. Most drives used by forum members are WD ( I think ). Green is the higher end WD model.

It's late so I'll wait til morning to comment further, but I wanted to correct one mistake first.

The Western Digital Blacks are the high performance drives. The Green drives are 5400rpm and are NEVER recommended as a primary drive. They make great backup drives or large storage drives, but would be a very poor choice as a main hard drive.

And I agree with everything Zburns already said.

[jnmwizkid]

I see. Thanks to both of you for clearing things up. This will probably be covered in your comments tomorrow, but the things that really stood out to me were the mentions of heating.

Zburns described that the GPU will run hot, but the case itself will probably be able to handle it. Even so, should I invest in a dedicated GPU cooler?
And what about the RAM heat-spreaders and the cable air-flow controllers ("high end cables or a cable wrap system to keep the power cables neat and to maximize airflow to prevent over heating and dust collection") that the other source mentioned?

My thoughts at the moment are to go with what I already ordered and start building it. Unless you recommend to switch hard drives beforehand, I'll stick with the Seagate until (if) it fails (I already devoted myself to being really keen on backup with the new PC). -- Would it be worth the extra hassle to switch if not DOA?
Then, unless you mention that the extra cooling and airflow would be necessary, I'll run some benchmarks on the PC after it's built. If it's running a little too hot, I'll come back and invest in some extra cooling.

Thanks

[RickyTick]

The Cooler Master HAF (which by the way stands for HIGH AIR FLOW) is one of the best cases on the market. This case offers excellent cable management too.
Watch this video review by Rodney Reynolds.
http://www.3dgameman.com/reviews/1153/cooler-master-haf-x-case

For a complete review of the GTX570 read through this. This is one of the best "bang for the buck" video cards available.
http://techreport.com/articles.x/20088/1

The ram heat spreaders a little gimmicky. They do provide some cooling properties, but as long as there is good air flow in the case, there's really nothing to worry about.

As for a hard drive, I would prefer Samsung or Western Digital, but Seagate is fine.

[zburns]

Late last night I took some time to look at liquid cooling for the 570 model that you have ordered. I am going to look at it some more right now. However, I did want to mention that what I saw last night regards the liquid cooling was not helpful. Your particular model did not appear to physically accept a liquid cooling water block. Here is my reason (s) for looking at this. Everything I said about your case having decent moderate temp air inside (no consideration given to the video card) was correct. The case is large and that helps the air flow inside from 'a good air flow perspective' versus 'a turbulent air flow perspective'. These are relative comments. For a video card that will run hot on 'high demand games', the larger case does provide a benefit in terms of better air flow.

That does not change the fact, that you may fall in love with your H80 Corsair closed loop liquid cooling system. The big benefit of the liquid cooling which you will probably find out, is that it will cool the cpu to lower temps than the 'fan monster' will ever do.

The same rational applies to the video card -- regardless of how good fan cooling can be made to perform, at some point temps will get so high that an alternative approach should be looked at.

You can get, for video cards, 'water blocks' that hook up to liquid cooling hoses and pumps; these water blocks take video card temps to lower temps than you can get with air cooling. But what I was looking at last nite, your particular choice of video card did not have a 'water block' (on the site I was looking at) that would 'fit' to the 570 card. It was late, I saw what I saw. So I am going back to it this morning and take another look.

You have opted for a high end system -- so I think you have to look at all the possibilities.

Late last night I took some time to look at liquid cooling for the 570 model that you have ordered. I am going to look at it some more right now. However, I did want to mention that what I saw last night regards the liquid cooling was not helpful. Your particular model did not appear to physically accept a liquid cooling water block. Here is my reason (s) for looking at this. Everything I said about your case having decent moderate temp air inside (no consideration given to the video card) was correct. The case is large and that helps the air flow inside from 'a good air flow perspective' versus 'a turbulent air flow perspective'. These are relative comments. For a video card that will run hot on 'high demand games', the larger case does provide a benefit in terms of better air flow.

That does not change the fact, that you may fall in love with your H80 Corsair closed loop liquid cooling system. The big benefit of the liquid cooling which you will probably find out, is that it will cool the cpu to lower temps than the 'fan monster' will ever do.

The same rational applies to the video card -- regardless of how good fan cooling can be made to perform, at some point temps will get so high that an alternative approach should be looked at.

You can get, for video cards, 'water blocks' that hook up to liquid cooling hoses and pumps; these water blocks take video card temps to lower temps than you can get with air cooling. But what I was looking at last nite, your particular choice of video card did not have a 'water block' (on the site I was looking at) that would 'fit' to the 570 card. It was late, I saw what I saw. So I am going back to it this morning and take another look.

You have opted for a high end system -- so I think you have to look at all the possibilities.
---------------------------

I want to change subjects. Did you get one of Rob's Build a PC book or have you read his 'My Super PC' online instructions? My next question is how familiar are you with the inherent danger of 'static electricity' causing component damage ranging from degradation to outright destruction of a component including your expensive components like the mobo and the cpu. You absolutely, particularly if you are a novice, have to obey some rules to protect components against static electricity. When you get your shipment, you can unpack the shipping boxes, but please do not open up the various component packages -- all the electronic components will be in some form of a box or a bag that protects against static.

Static electricity can reach levels of 15,000 volts in the factory or even the home environment. Fortunately, it is worse in very cold and dry air; so we are not there yet, but it still exists as a lesser and still dangerous problem. Your 32 nanometer intel cpu cannot even stand 2 or 3 volts of static voltage accidentally applied to some of the pins.

When you remove the components from their packaging, you have to be wearing a wrist strap that is connected to a common ground point with the component packaging.

I am going to leave this subject of static electricity, wrist strap and grounding right now; however, I wanted to ask you about your knowledge about all this before you got your hands on your shipment!

[jnmwizkid]

Great video review, Ricky. I'm glad to see the case is certainly high quality in the end. The GTX570 review was useful also. I'll stay away from the RAM spreaders for now, then, and go along with my aforementioned plan with the hard drive.

Zburns, thanks for researching about the video card cooling. I did some of my own research and I found 3 definite compatible water blocks (using coolingconfigurator's compatibility check -- http://www.coolingconfigurator.com/ ):

Budget Universal: http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/ek-vga-supreme-hf-acetal.html
Card-Specific: http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/ek-fc570-gtx-se-acetal-en-nickel.html ,
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/ek-fc570-gtx-se-en-nickel.html

Are these what you're referring to?

As for the static danger, I do know about it, but thank you for bringing it up. Here's my plan to prevent that... I bought the Kingwin ATS-W24 Anti-Static Wrist Strap w/ Grounding Wire (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16899226001) with my initial order. I plan on bringing in a wooden table in my kitchen (solely because it's the only room that isn't carpeted besides the bathrooms), and I'll be wearing sneakers with rubber soles.
Is what I described good? I haven't looked at Rob's site for awhile, but I was planning to use it for the step-by-step when the parts came in (as well as some video tutorials).

Thanks

[zburns]

This is just 'talk' right now -- do not do any of this without knowing you understand what it is you are doing!!! The wooden table is a good idea and the lack of carpet is also valid. Now to the shoes. Rubber sole sneakers insulate you off the floor, allowing you to build up and retain static charge UNLESS it is being bled off via a wrist strap that has a path to ground, otherwise the charge remains and slowly bleeds off thru the furniture and the floor covering . Wearing leather sole shoes can hasten the bleed off quite a bit on a non-carpet floor (depends on the electrical equivalent circuit that exists within the physical setup). Wearing leather soles can also allow a instantaneous larger build up of static electricity than sneakers; however, with leather the bleed off is very fast, but the nature of the 'build up of elec charge' is dangerous to the 'circuits' so rubber sole is a better alternative.

The chair you sit in. I suggest a wooden chair -- no cushion. Polyester covered chair cushions when rubbed by similar clothing generate static.

This is a serious question: Since you are going to work in your kitchen, are you physically close to your water heater? Before I go further I will wait on your answer!

[jnmwizkid]

Okay, first of all, my understanding is that the strap is clipped and grounded to the computer case itself, right? Is there an extra step that I must do to give it a path to the ground?

Something else -- the table and wooden chairs that I can potentially use are painted with latex paint. Would this cause any issues? I have another wooden table that's not painted, but its corners and sides are made of metal. I assume that would be worse. If neither option is acceptable, would it make more sense to simply build it on the floor?

The water heater -- the boiler that heats the water for the house? That isn't in my kitchen. Theoretically, if I were to use the table, the fridge would be behind me and the oven to the side (though far away enough not to touch either).

Another thing, I assume it would be bad to have my running laptop nearby (for instructions and such), wouldn't it?

[zburns]

When you start the assembly process, take your power cords and hide them -- not until you have finished assembly, double checked everything, etc. do you want a power cord anywhere close -- no chance of an accidential 'plug' in of a power cord!

The wood table, not painted. Corners and sides metal -- do you mean the legs are metal -- or does 'corners and sides' apply to table top only?

Your grounding wrist strap has a 'megaohm resistor' wired in series 'in effect between the strap and the grounding wire'. Since you are hooking the wire end of the wrist strap to 'something' else, the one meg resistor works both to limit the current that can flow into your wrist but it also insures that as long as you are not 'wiggling around' (and generating static) that you and whatever you are connected too are at the same voltage potential.

Your motherboard is packed in a bag that has on the inside surface of the plastic bag, a 'laid on patten of black dots that are all connected' -- this pattern is conductive (really semi conductive -- take a ohm meter and measure from one corner of the bag to the farthest corner, the meter might read something like 1/2 to 1 megohm of resistance -- the motherboard top and bottom surfaces touch this pattern wherever possible. All points on the motherboard that are conductive and touch the conductive portions of the bag are connected together electrically but thru some 'ohm' resistance.

Before you take or slide the motherboard out of the bag, you also want to connect the bag interior semiconductive surface to the computer case metal (with a clip lead). So your wrist strap, semi conductive bag and case are all connected together -- and, therefore, all at the same voltage potential.

With regards to installing the motherboard and insuring no static electricity 'hits' the mobo, the above simple discussion covers it. You want to keep everything at the same voltage potential (or the same voltage -- meaning zero volts). If static voltage occurs on your body and you are connected to the case and the mobo bag, the voltage will dissipate via the interconnection of you, case and mobo bag. The static voltage will also bleed off to the floor -- if this actually happens, real time, it could take 'some few seconds' for the static to bleed off -- this means that your movements should be slow and precise -- no rapid movement from one component to another.

After you have installed the motherboard, you can reuse the mobo bag still clipped with a lead to the case for your other circuit board components -- like the RAM -- slide them out of container or package onto the inside of the mobo bag (access the semi conductive surface).

Am I generating confusion or making sense? We need to be in complete agreement on the above!

EDIT: Do not try to assemble on the floor -- you will not be comfortable, probably awkward and mistake prone! The plain wood table with the metal probably is best -- just describe it a little more about the metal and sides. I will get back to the water heater comment in the next post -- we should be about done!

[jnmwizkid]

Alright, the table does have metal legs. It is a large table that folds in. As another alternative, I have a tall table that's purely wood; the only problems are that its top surface area doesn't give much space to work with (though I believe it's big enough to work comfortably on), and the only chairs I have for it have some kind of material cushions built in. If you think that it wouldn't have the same comfort complications as the floor, I don't mind standing while working on it (I stand for hours on end at my job).

Your description of the way the static electricity transfers makes sense. Just to make sure, I should clip the wrist band's alligator clip to the opening of the motherboard's bag and the side of the case in the same place before unpacking any static-sensitive component?

The other guidelines to follow are to keep extreme patience and move slowly, and to touch the case directly before handling any components (as an extra precaution after the wrist strap). Right?

[RickyTick]

touch the case directly before handling any components (as an extra precaution after the wrist strap). Right?

Exactly.

[zburns]

Just to make sure, I should clip the wrist band's alligator clip to the opening of the motherboard's bag and the side of the case in the same place before unpacking any static-sensitive component?

Clip the wrist strap to the case on unpainted metal. You need a 'alligator jumper wire' -- a pc of wire about 24 inches long with an alligator clip on each end. (you can buy these in a bundle at Radio Shack or any electronic supplier -- couple of bucks) Use this jumper to connect the inside of the mobo bag to the same metal surface on the case that you put the wrist strap clip onto. Now you have you and the wrist strap, the case, and the mobo bag all clipped together. The inside of the mobo bag is just a temporary parking space for any electronic component just before you install it. When you unpack it and want to set it down - the component itself- set it down inside the mobo bag on the semi-conducting surface.

Use the mobo bag in the above arrangement to lay components as they come out of their packaging that has direct contact with the component -- I am talking about the mobo, cpu, RAM, maybe even the video card just to be consistent. Hardware like the cooler is not included -- just anything electronic. When you get ready to install the cpu, just remember all the pins are off limits -- do not touch them; do not even breathe on them. When you pick up the cpu, touch only the sides of the housing.

If you will use a wood chair, it will probably be less of a static generator than a upholstered chair (particularly is the fabric is polyester). My chair has a polyester back and seat. If I wiggle around in this chair, stand up and walk to the wall switch and carefully put a finger 'knuckle' up to one of the screws on the wall switch cover, I will draw a small spit or arc or 'shock' -- whatever you want to call it -- but I have just discharged static from my body and clothes when that happens. I believe it has most to do with the seat covering and the clothes I am wearing. This is why I suggest a wood chair. Wear cotton if you have it, but most clothing has some polyester or synthetic in it these days, probably.

Any of your tables will be ok, even the fold up table with metal legs (the top is wood and covered with a formica like plastic, if it is the table I think it is.).

Summing up: Wrist strap on one of your wrists. Wrist strap alligator clip to a obvious piece of clear metal on the case. A alligator clip jumper from the same place on the case to the inside surface of the mobo bag before you ever slide the mobo out of the bag. Use the bag as a temporary rest stop for the other several pieces of electronics prior to their install. It might make sense to cut the bag open and leave the mobo sitting on it, particularly when you are ready to plug the cpu into the socket on the mobo.

If you have a large electronics store in your city, they might have semi-conductive foam about 12" square. I have two such pieces -- mfg name is Statco -- got it from Frys Electronics in 2008. I use it in lieu of the mobo bag and hook my alligator clip jumper to the foam -- but it is semi conductive -- made purposely for an electonics bench as a work surface. Again this foam takes the place of the mobo bag -- both items have the semi conductive surface. Again for your convenience you may want to cut open the bag and get the semi-conductive surface open flat on your table -- be about 12 by 24 inches opened up -- this in lieu of being able to get the foam. Cost about $ 8.00.

Your comments about touching the case for some seconds with the hand 'NOT' on the wrist strap is wise. Summing up, you, the case and the mobo bag work surface (or the foam) all want to be at the same voltage; zero volts hopefully. If you do have a static charge on you, it will dissipate given some time -- I do not know how long, but I would probably go 30 seconds worse case. Remember to keep your plug in power cords away from your work area. Before you ever plug one in, you want to have at least tripple checked everything you have done.

Good luck, and if there are any questions, just post them on the forum under your present heading.

[jnmwizkid]

Wonderful explanation zburns. I know exactly how to handle the components now; I'll pick up the jumper wire and possibly the foam on my way home tomorrow. Parts should be in by then (case had to be 3day, but it's in the same ups facility as the other 3 packages :))

I appreciate your comments so much. Thank you!

[zburns]

This just occured to me. There is also made a flexible plastic semi conductive work surface. I have not looked at one for several years, but as I recall, they measured like 30" by 20" -- sort of desk top blotter size or writing surface size. They were about $ 30. But I would imagine there are smaller pieces made, like 12 " square. The foam is the best in my opinion -- I think mine measures 500k ohms corner to corner diagonally. Anyhow, any flexible semi conductive surface will work --the store employee should know all about it.

If you cannot find the foam, I would consider cutting open the mobo bag, one edge and the back, then it will fold open about 12" x 24" -- if you cut it open -- leave the mobo in it -- cut down one side and then along the rear. BUT BETTER if you can get a pc of foam or a semi cond pad from the store!!

Here is another topic -- short thank goodness!

If you have not done any of this before -- you still need a step by step guide. Please use Rob's on line instructions -- they are short -- no big deal in 'following his instructions'. The benefit is that if follow his instructions step by step, then if you have a problem, you can give us a starting point to help you by telling us where you are in Rob's instructions. Also, best not to assume anything -- you must be able to 'read how to do it'. If you cannot, get on the forum and ask!!

Once again, good luck!!

[jnmwizkid]

Haha thanks. I already started looking over Rob's step by step earlier today. I'm going to use his step process in conjunction with some single-step video tutorials to make sure each step is flawless.

I also took a look at some 80mm fans (only about $10 at bestbuy or elsewhere). I might pick one up just because it can't hurt anything. Reason is because in the review of the case that Ricky linked earlier, the reviewer said that an 80mm fan can easily mount to the other side of the video card mount within the case. Probably won't do too much, but it's better than nothing for the time being.

Edit:
Concerning the step process, would it be dangerous to have my running laptop nearby for the tutorials?

[RickyTick]

Edit:
Concerning the step process, would it be dangerous to have my running laptop nearby for the tutorials?

No problem at all.

[ARchamps]

Just keep yourself grounded. When I built mine, I had my laptop open with tutorials and videos. When you are about to touch a component, just ground yourself by touching the case or use a static braclet thingy.

[jnmwizkid]

Thanks Ricky and AR :)

Parts are all in! Impressive ;)

[jnmwizkid]

Great news! First boot went perfectly, and then Windows installed perfectly. :)

There are a couple things I need to figure out, though. On the Cooler Master HAF X, how do you use the Video Card Mount? I've googled it but I couldn't quite figure it out. It works fine without the mount, but I have an extra 80mm fan for the card that can supposedly be attached to the mount.

I removed the back stock fan in the case to install the corsair H80 radiator (flowing outward, same as the fan was). Could I reinstall it in a different place in the case? I believe there is a removable attachment that can support a 120mm fan, is that good?

Each of the case fans themselves have motherboard pin-to-power supply adapters, excluding the Corsair H80 (have it connected to the mobo CPU_FAN pins). Should I continue feeding them power directly through the PSU with the adapters, or should I connect a couple of the case fans to the CHA_FANx pins on the motherboard? (Obviously, they don't appear on BIOS without doing this, but what's the better method?

Finally, how should I go about cable management? It's a huge jumble in there at the moment. I know to use the cable ties that came with the case, but is there a more or less better way to manage them?

Edit:
Oh, and why is my monitor capped at 60Hz? How do I raise the cap without changing the vertical/horizontal resolution? I wasn't able to get online to download the drivers yet (only the motherboard's disc and the video card's disc), would that affect it?

Thanks!

[ARchamps]

Congrats!

I think once you install your drivers, you should be able to adjust it. I'm not sure about that though. It doesn't really matter if you plug them into the MB or PSU. When plugged into the PSU, they will run at full speed, where on the MB they are controlled.

Cable management is all about trial and error. Examine your case and run wires in a way where you can hide the majority of wires behind the MB. I'm still working on it myself :-P Here is a pic I found on the HAF X with some good cable management for ideas:

http://www.pureoverclock.com/images/review/cases/coolermaster_hafx/coolermaster_hafx_25.jpg
http://www.pureoverclock.com/images/review/cases/coolermaster_hafx/coolermaster_hafx_26.jpg

[jnmwizkid]

Thanks AR, I'll try to model the wires after that. :)

[jnmwizkid]

Nevermind on all of that, I figured it all out. The stock fan I removed is actually 140mm, so it won't fit in that attachment. The VGA bracket that I got the 80mm fan for won't fit in the case at the same time as the 200mm air duct fan on the exterior panel. Also, I sat down and thought through the cable management, and I think I did a pretty good job.