my first comp build wuld like help

[grave123]

this will be my first rig would like some help with this And would like if u could rec a graphics card for me . will mainly be using for hcpc gaming and classwork

my outline:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157208
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153023
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148699
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231455
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833704045
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811121096

I'm a little worried about the case since i already bought it. but any ideas on a graphics card

[zburns]

I am curious as to why you chose this wireless adapter. Exactly what is you plan to do for wireless. I assume you are planning a wireless keyboard and mouse, but what else?

[grave123]

well i would like to link my 360,ps3,phone and a couple other things but i would like to put a wi-fi adapter in there if possible instead but i dont think ill have enough room , and cash this week for that cause i still want win 7 and a graphics card or 2

[RickyTick]

This ram would be better for that motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231311

For a graphics card, I'd choose one of these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150527
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127578

If those are a little too expensive. I'd suggest one of these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150515
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130661

However, you might consider bumping up your power supply for running any of these video cards.

[grave123]

what about this power supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170010

[RickyTick]

It looks ok grave, but I have a hard time trusting the cheap power supplies. The reviews look good, so it might be just fine.

[grave123]

WOULD THIS BE BETTER CAUSE i wanna put dis drives in there as well
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182032

[zburns]

graves quote"i wanna put dis drives in there as well" . If you are referring to DVD and HD 'drives', they do not pull much power and are not a real factor in figuring out wattage for a psu. Did you mean something different?

Now to the power supplies. The Rosewill RP600V2-S-SL 600W has very good specifications up to a point. I am only going to point out one major problem. It is a 70 % efficient power supply. This means that when the power supply is putting out a full 600 watts of power, the psu itself is only operating at 70% efficiency. There is approximately 857 watts of electric power being used, 600 watts for when the computer requires max output and 257 watts of wasted electrical energy. The unit has 'certification' by independant labs such as UL and others, but the 70 % efficiency rating is an indicator of 'less than adequate design' in an effort to save manufacturing costs.

If you look at all the Antec Power Supplies, the few lower wattage models (included) but mainly 500 watt and up, you will find efficiency of 80% is the 'bottom efficiency floor'. Some (I do not know the number) of the Antec supplies run at a little higher efficiencies.

Ok, does the above really matter. If you are running a high wattage video card, and a 22 inch or 24 inch or larger monitor and pushing the frame rate as high as possible, then you are in effect trying to reach the 'upper limits of the speedometer' -- 120 mph, meaning 'pushing the power supply' to its limits or close. If it is a psu 'sized properly' with some elbow room, you will always get great performance. If it is really undersized and not large enough, then you may see visible effects maybe on the monitor or internally inside the case in the form of 'weird' or unexplainable occurences. Such a 'visible' effect would be the internal protections in the psu shutting the psu down because the +12 volt rail(s) is not performing correctly, which endangers all the electronics. (The cpu does have internal cutouts for temp overload)

A computer builder who wants a great gaming unit, very high level or mid level, is willing to spend 'hundreds' on the video card, monitor, cpu and motherboard. Buying a low performing power supply based on (1) 'what might look like good specs' and (2) how much money you can save is not logical. If the purchaser is 'maxing' out all the other component specifications and quality, he (she) should likewise be willing to spend a proportionate amount of dollars on a very good power supply.

If you have to be on a low budget or not interested in 'high performance gaming', then it is alright to buy lower cost components. The best real example that comes to mind, is the new Sandy Bridge cpus with integrated graphics -- for users willing to use the integrated graphics, the total wattage requirement for the cpu is under 100 watts for many of the cpus with graphics. Such a 'cpu purchase decision' (to use the int graphics) automatically puts 'the build' in the low to mid dollars range with 'full respectability.

The purpose of this post is to point out that a computer builder in the decision making process is willing to pay out good dollars on most of the important components -- in a way there is no component more important than a well performing power supply -- please give it 'equal respect' in the decision making process.

[grave123]

so what your saying is that Efficiency is #1 track record#2 and price#3 when looking for an psu. so would this be an better psu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256071

[zburns]

On the surface, that seems like a good power supply -- and I am not saying it is not. But lets look at what is not said. Here is a link to the specifications on the power supply: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12537/psu-471/Silverstone_Strider_Essential_ST60F-ES_600W_Modular_Power_Supply_SST-ST75F-G.html

So 'what is not said' so far. If you just 'google' Silverstone, the page that comes up gives you no idea 'who manufactures the product'. The link above to 'Frozen cpu.com' gives you, I think, complete specifications on this psu; incidentially, more complete than Newegg ('Details' on the Newegg site is the specifications) -- example on Newegg, Details, look in left column, see 'Over Voltage Protection' - it simply says 'Yes'. If you look at the 'FrozenCpu.com' - link above - page, down to Protection:, you then see six modes of protection. The first mode listed is 'Over Current Protection' -- this means the moment the current goes above the specified output level, the psu, the circuit for overcurrent protection shuts down the psu in a manner to prevent the 'overcurrent' from occuring.

The reason I mention overcurrent has to do with the 'number' of +12 volt 'rails' or power supply 'output' voltages and currents. This power supply has only one +12 volt rail with a max output of 42 amps on the +12volt rail -- the overcurrent protection circuit kicks in only when the output current 'exceeds' 42 amps.

All psus have +12 volt rails; many have the +12 volt rail split into multiple outputs. In the case above, if there were two +12 volt rails, they would each have 21 amp outputs (42 amps total). With one rail under a overload condition, the 'overcurrent' protection circuit would kick in the moment 21 amps was 'fractionally exceeded' beyond (over) 21 amps (doubtful, the current could not even get to 22 amps before the overcurrent circuit shut it down).

So in one case a psu with a single rail has a much higher threshold of the 'overcurrent protect' circuit kicking in > 42 amps for one rail, and, in the case of two identical +12 volt rails, it kicks in at > 21 amps. (> means 'greater than')
---------------
Look at what 'components' the +12 volt rail (s) are supplying power to -- cpu, motherboard, all the PCI slots, USP ports (maybe), other ports(maybe). My point is that the +12 volt rail(s) supplies the 'guts' of the computer with power, but the power is divided up between multiple components, each component requiring 'less than' 21 amps typically.

So a single +12 volt output supplying 42 amps to, for example, six components in an overload condition will shut down all six components at the same time. If you have multiple +12 volt rails, then the overcurrent trip point is much smaller and affects (shuts down) a smaller number of components. Shutting down 'instantly' 42 amps thru an electrical coil of wire is more traumatic than shutting down 21 amps -- poses a greater possibility of 'component damage'.

Some companies engineers will argue in favor of the single rail design, others in favor of the multiple rail design. The single rail design is easier and cheaper to manufacture. The multiple rail design, a little more complicated and more costly to manufacture. I do not see how one can argue against the multiple rail design being the best, protection wise. Regardless, of which design is being used or considered for purchase, the buyer should read reviews done by a competent reviewer. Necassarily so, a good review will be lengthy and a little technical.

[grave123]

but u would think that the dual rail would be better since it splits the flow of 1 rail in half which would cut the failure rate of a single rail in half .

[zburns]

Hopefully, there is no such thing as 'failure rate', a term whose meaning 'seems to expect failures to occur'. The question of a single rail +12 volt psu vs multiple rails has to do with 'protecting' components' and 'safety' from 'fire' and / or 'electrical shock hazards to the user.

Multiple +12 volt rails with lower current (amps) trip points is 'theoretically safer' that a single +12 volt rail with a high current output that serves all computer components -- even tho the single +12 volt rail can have very sensitive 'overcurrent' trip points such as 'tripping off with just a small increase beyond the maximum ampere output. Example: +12 volt single rail with a max output of 60 amps ( roughly a psu with 750 watt output). If a computer component 'shorts' out or 'comes close to a short', the demand for current from the power supply will be very large, but the 'overcurrent' protection circuit will immediately 'electronically stop the extra high output current' from going beyond 61 or 62 amps, there by preventing 'catastrophic failure' thruout the entire computer (see explanation below for catastrophic failure).

So, if you have one psu +12 volt rail with high current output -- example above 60 amps -- the possible overload current is way beyond 60 amps if the overcurrent protection circuit fails and all components are exposed to the consequences. If, instead, you have multiple +12 volt rails, say two rails with output of 30 amps each, or three rails, one at 30 amps, two at 15 amps, with overcurrent protection at 30.5 amps and 15.5 amps, the 'energy' expended in the 'short circuit' is far less and, therefore, safer.

If you read most articles about single vs multiple rail psus, you find 'split opinions' by people who understand the circuitry -- very little bias in the articles. However, in the final analysis, one type design has to be better than the other -- depends on how one weighs all the options. The 'one +12 v rail' folks will claim that a single output best distributes the power in an efficient manner so that 'full use' of the single +12 volt rail power is accomplished. The multiple +12 volt rail folks will argue that multiple and lower outputs, not only protects components better but is safer for the owner of the computer because the 'short circuit' (and dangerous) currents are much smaller in multiple +12 v rail design than the single +12volt rail design -- this is the significant comment in the argument that tilts toward 'multiple +12 volt rail design'.

So power supply design, many would argue, is safer where multiple +12 volt rails are used. This naturally increases the cost. The other factor that affects cost is the quality of the components used in the power supply. The power supply's job is to not only provide sufficient power but to protect -- if you call this last statement Rule Number One in the 'PSU decision making process' -- one eventually comes around to the idea or fact, that buying the 'lowest cost or cheapest' computer power supply is not the way to go -- no reasonable argument supports that idea.

The reputation and longevity of the manufacturer plays a role also. Well known computer component manufacturers with great reputations cannot afford to put into the market power supply designs that are delibertly 'designed with low cost components or ideas' done or used specifically to keep manufacturing costs down at the expense of quality or safety.