Need your opinion on this system...

[Ezy]

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum, found the website from trusty Google.

Quick overview: I built my last computer in mid 2008 (details below).

Intel Core 2 Quad (Q9950) 2x6Mb [EMT64T 2.83G] 1333Mhz; LGA7750
Intel DP45SG Extreme Series MB 775 DDR3 1333FSB GLAN eSata Dual PCI-E 6 SATA
4096Mb DDR3 1333 Memory Corsair Twin3x4096 - 1333C9DHX
750Gb Seagate SATA2 32Mb HDD 7200RPM
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512Mb VGA DDR5 CrossfireX
ANTEC Sonata III Piano Black Case 500W
Vista Home 32bit

I have used the system for work and home (inc. gaming) for almost 3 years now. In addition, I recently I purchased a new LCD monitor (1440x900).

Just recently I have played a couple of games, where the client just crashes with an error regarding memory (i.e. not enough, insufficient, etc). I can play Battlefield Bad Company 2, without any problems. But online titles like AION and APB Reloaded cause my computer to crash when I enter large areas with multiple users. I also installed a program that measures and records what processes are on and how much RAM is being used. AION for instance uses around 2GB of RAM and then just crashes. APB also sticks to around 1.75GB, but when I enter large battlefields it hits over 2GB and the client crashes.

In my opinion, I was going to re-build a new computer. But I am not sure whether I can potentially upgrade my system for a fraction of the cost. But I am not a real computer expert, so I am not sure exactly what pathway I should be taking. So far I have come to blame Vista 32bit and my 4gb RAM which seems to be sitting at 38-44% usage from start-up via windows processes.

Alternatively, I used a local company to come up with an online quote for a new system. As shown below (screenshot attached). I am however considering increase the ram from 8gb to 12gb on the new system.

http://cgenetwork.com/image_upload/images/23new_computer.png

I appreciate your feedback concerning this matter.

Kind regards,
Dan

[zburns]

First question, did the problem occur since you installed the new monitor? What size was the old monitor? When you use the on-line games, have you looked in TASK MANAGER for memory usage on these games while the game is running? Also, what is the size and 'native resolution' of your new LCD monitor. (the resolution you stated does not sound like a native resolution)

These comments regarding the 'not so old' computer. Assuming your BSOD crashes are infrequent or only some of the time, I suggest your problem is dust or just one bad stick of RAM; worst case both sticks. I had random BSOD failures and RAM related non-booting. If you have been some time between cleaning dust out, perhaps your RAM sticks have dust in them -- the dust may cause degradation of the RAM stick to where just cleaning does not help -- replacement only. You have 'dual channel' RAM on that mobo, so if you purchase new sticks, you need to get two new and matched sticks.

If the problem has just started and if the problem is caused by a defective stick of RAM, it is unlikely that both sticks became defective at the same time. So you could run with just one of the two sticks and see which one is causing the problem; however, you should not run a 'high demand video' game with just one stick installed.

If the problem has occured since you purchased the new monitor, try dropping back a level in monitor resolution (preferably to the resolution the original monitor ran at) which will put 'less requirement' on the RAM. If problem stops, RAM is not sufficient or just in the beginning of a failure mode. But even in this senario, it can still just be one stick of RAM causing the problem.

If you are having problems with games only and not internet browsing, that would tend to still indicate RAM (but remember it just takes one stick to act up).

Too definitively prove it is RAM, and if you have to run video games to prove it, you almost have to replace both sticks at the same time if 'running games' are the test.

RAM voltage. Do you have the voltage for the RAM set to what your RAM mfg recommends? Overvoltage might cause your problem with the RAM, but it would be a permanent degradation type problem.

Last and different approach. Are you very 'rigorous' in running anti virus, anti malware apps on a daily basis? I routinely run Microsoft Security Essentials and Malwarebytes every day. In the last three to six months, I have had two or three infections, both MSE and Malwarebytes caught them all. Had a BSOD two days ago just after going to a new website. Some months ago, had one caused by Coolermaster 'forum', (not coolermaster). I routinely, do not have a problem with BSODs; I definitely had 3 sticks out of four go bad on me after three years of use since finishing my build in June 2008. (I had a bad dust problem with the RAM which was caused by my RAM located opposite the cpu fan so that the fan exhaust blew dust right at and into the RAM stick closest to the fan -- my problem related to physical design of my ASUS mobo).

If you decide that you must clean dust out of the old computer, please use 'cans of compressed air' purchased for that purpose (keep them upright when using them so that 'dry air' only comes out).

Summing up, it does sound like RAM problem with the old computer. If one stick has 'a partial failure in progress', then the combination of new monitor at higher resolution plus the on line game is pushing you over the top on '4 gig RAM total'. Try looking at TASK MANAGER with the online games at the old monitor resolution on the new monitor, to see how close to 100% you get. If you do not get close to 100% mem usage and you crash, then 'virus' or partially defective stick. If things improve and crashes less frequent or not at all, that definitely would indicate 'not enough RAM' as opposed to defective RAM.

I would also point out that Microsoft routinely touts 'be sure you are on safe websites'. Perhaps your game choices when the crashes occur are 'vulnerable' to malware and/or viruses!

Regards your proposed new build, you would be best to go with the new Sandy Bridge 2600K cpu. I am a fan of 'building your own'; to me that is the only way you learn the 'ins and outs' of the latest technologies.

[zburns]

This is a separate post because of the previous post length. Did the 'crashes' begin immediately after installing the new monitor, days after, weeks after, a month or months after. Looking for 'coincidence' obviously!

I just looked quickly at the proposed new build vs the high end, Ricky Tick build. Your new build includes a SSD, but the High End build (SuperPC) has 8 GigRAM ($80) vs above build, 4 GiG RAM ($118). Also, no cpu cooler on above new build (means that quote includes factory cpu cooler). New build (SuperPC) includes Liquid Cooling for the cpu -- much better for gaming. The RAM cost on the New Build (SuperPC) should cancel the SSD cost. New Build (SuperPC) has more advanced cpu -- Sandy Bridge -- twice the RAM, 8 gig vs 4 gig -- liquid Cooling (SuperPC) vs factory fan. $ 1492 (SuperPC) vs $ 1914 (outside vendor build). Somewhat better video card on your 'outside vendor', GA model 580 vs MSI model 570 ($ 160 difference).

I am firmly convinced that building your own is the only way to go; plenty of novices do it successfully. You do have to obey some rules. You get the advantage of hands on experience which is how one gains experience and knowledge.
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This comment about your present system crashing. If the only time it is happening is when you bring in new players randomly from a large area, that seems to be 'to be an invite' for malware or virus from one or more of the players; unless you have a malware program 'active' at all times you would not see it. You could also have the outsider 'infect' your computer and unless you run anti malware/virus programs daily, the infection would remain and maybe become more 'implanted' within your software. However, running multiple anti malware and antivirus software, daily, one would hope it would be 'caught' or recognized. My experience says such a 'outside' infection will clearly cause BSOD crashes.

[zburns]

Ezy, In the above two posts, I may have covered all the possibilities but, perhaps, the real one and that follows here!!


Just recently I have played a couple of games, where the client just crashes with an error regarding memory (i.e. not enough, insufficient, etc). I can play Battlefield Bad Company 2, without any problems. But online titles like AION and APB Reloaded cause my computer to crash when I enter large areas with multiple users. I also installed a program that measures and records what processes are on and how much RAM is being used. AION for instance uses around 2GB of RAM and then just crashes. APB also sticks to around 1.75GB, but when I enter large battlefields it hits over 2GB and the client crashes.

I have Vista 32 bit also. While you have 4 GigRAM installed, your total usable RAM is apx 3.5 gig RAM. Running with one Gb RAM stick, my task manager on Vista shows 70% memory usage with only my desktop and this forum, MySuperPC Forum open. I have a two core processor; you have a Quad and your memory shows 38 to 44 % usage. I am not sure what applications you have running to get 38 to 44% RAM usage, but lets assume it is just your desktop and this forum open. If my two core cpu at 70% memory was a four core instead, my usage would be about the number you show.

Assuming your problem ONLY OCCURS with AION and APB when you take in many more 'battlefield users' which causes your RAM to soar. Even initially, your RAM may have a peak that 'subsides quickly', but the peak momentary RAM usage plus your 'desktop open' usage with the game running causes your RAM to exceed the max limit (3.5 Gig RAM) for 32 bit, which in turn, causes the 'crash'.

If the problem occured only with the new monitor, this might mean that the new monitor was running at a higher resolution than your old monitor (which would cause use of more RAM). The new monitor may have played no role at ALL if the problem occured prior to the new monitor.

So once again, if you have only had the problem occur when "when I enter large areas with multiple users" then I would say the OS needs to be 64 bit, not 32 bit, and you need at least 6 gig minimum RAM. Practically speaking, that would be 4 sticks, 2 gig each for your four dual channel RAM sockets. Total 8 gig RAM minimum. (you have to fill all four slots to get the speed advantage of 'dual channel memory')

[RickyTick]

I'm thinking along the same lines as zburns here. Looking at the specs of your 2008 pc, there's no reason why that rig won't play any game at 1440x900 or higher.

There's a problem with a stick of ram, or something is overheating for whatever reason (dust is a very likely candidate).

Have you updated Vista to Service Pack 3? Is your video card driver up to date?

Also, on your proposed new build, that's rather expensive unless they are putting it all together too.