Server memory on desktop mobo

[TheAgustin]

Can I plug this server memory 240-pin SDram DDR3-1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148445

On this mobo ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157243

Cheers :: )
Agustin.

[zburns]

Go to this Crucial page for your selected RAM. http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT3KIT102472BB1339 Use the Crucial Memory advisor tool to the left of the RAM Picture and Crucial Data, all of this at top of page. Plug in Mobo Manufacturer's Name , Type of part (motherboard), and model # of selected mobo (your mobo choice has two different model numbers).

According to the Crucial tool, the memory selection is not compatible for either of the mobo choices. But please check it yourself to be certain.

EDIT, 4 pm EST. The RAM you selected is for Server mobos. I am curious about the expense. I did read that on a server, you could go up to 192 RAM. If this is so, then the RAM selected for such a computer would have to be designed and manufactured for long life (as few failures as possible); this fact alone could account for the expensive cost of what you selected. If you are only going to a single processor mobo with a 24 or 32 gig RAM max capacity, you might can get by with 'normal' RAM at normal desktop costs. Because you have less total RAM when compared to a large server, there is less likelihood of failure when compared to a single load of a lot more sticks of RAM. This is my opinion only. I would also suggest you actually call Crucial and see what they have to say.

If the registered aspect of the expensive RAM has to do with contracts that call out for your using 'certified and registered RAM' in order to validate your work, then that is a entirely different situation, quality assurance, legal, etc..

[zburns]

EDIT, 5:20 pm EST. Your mobo will take max 32 GB in four slots or 24 GB in four slots. I have looked for sticks of 8 and 6 GB, but so far unable to find any; I will keep looking. However, there is nothing wrong with phoning Crucial or other RAM mfgs and asking them if they have available 'dual channel RAM to go in 4 slots and total 24 or 32 GB. You can also go to a triple channel mobo with 6 slots and fill the 6 slots with 4 gig sticks for a total of 24 gig.

If you cannot find 8 gig sticks to fill 4 slots on the AsRock dual channel mobo, then you can certainly find 6 sticks of 4 gig RAM to fill 6 slots on a triple channel mobo but you will have to find a tripple channel mobo that will take the AMD cpu.

Since you have a AsRock mobo picked out provided you can find 4 sticks of 8 gig RAM or 4 sticks of 6 gig each, I suggest you keep looking for these two sizes. Someone has them.

[TheAgustin]

I can't find 8gb sticks. All the AMD compatible motherboards have 4 memory slots, and it seems the max ram I can get is 16gb which is too little.

I would like 26gbs to start with, it seems the setup I'm looking for doesn't exist.

[zburns]

I found the following out this morning. Google the following: server 8gb 240 pin ddr3 sdram and you will get a full page or pages (maybe) of single sticks of 8gb RAM. Evidently (without asking anyone), 8 gb modules seem to be reserved for servers as opposed to ordinary desktops. I did not look at Crucial yet, but will later in the day and, assuming they have it, check it against the AsRock mobo. Probably other RAM mfgs have similiar 'advisor tools'. Because it is 'server', it will probably be all registered, hence more expensive.

I would assume most of the other mfgs have a similar 'advisor tool' similar to the crucial. Also, it makes sense that RAM for servers would be a different configuration than regular desktop, because there is business liability involved on servers; if 'unregistered' 8 gb modules were available for the desktop models, they could wind up in servers and become a liability for the manufacturers -- probably the reason we could not find it in the 'desktop' search.

If you use 8 gig modules (32 gb total), you will have to load up the AsRock mobo with all four slots to get the benefit of 'dual channel faster operation'. If you just put in 3 sticks, the mobo would not run with the speed advantage 'dual channel' provides. You would be slowed down.

EDIT: Crucial does have a 8gb stick but it still shows 'not compatible' with the AsRock mobo. Another idea, is to call AsRock or look on their website for compatible RAM; you should probably call them anyway and see if that mobo can accept server RAM.

[TheAgustin]

zBurns I really appreciate your active cooperation in my quest :: )

Yes, I've been trying crucial and kingston advisor tools. Nothing fits nowhere based on their recommendations, so I think we could "ignore" their recommendations a little bit. I think their recommendations are a tool to get customers out of their back when they complain.

So the alternatives would be using 4x4gb (16gb). What about a server board ? I have 8 slots, how many should / can I use ? If I use 3 slots x 8gb would I be doing wrong again ? It would mean I have to use 4x8gb (32gb) which is a little expensive. What a predicament !

[zburns]

Without going into a lot of detail, I can only suggest to you that UNIEQUIVOCALLY you cannot ignore the manufacturers recommendations and just try RAM that you think will work. There is an explanation as to why the 8gig RAM stick seems elusive. Later today I will call one of the manufacturers and try to get a definitive answer. We may find that the ASRock mobo will take 4 sticks of the 8 gig RAM. The ASRock mobo requires dual channel RAM, meaning either two sticks only or 4 sticks only.

What board are you referring to that has 8 slots? If your mobo accepts dual channel RAM, you use sticks in multiples of 2. If the mobo is triple channel, you use sticks in multiples of 3. This statement would apply to desktop, certainly, and I presume server mobos also.

I have only looked at the AsRock mobo you suggested. It takes a max amt of 32 gig RAM, 4 sticks at 8 gig each. As Rock should be able to tell you what 8 gig RAM is compatible with that mobo.

If you are going to build your computer, each step must be a correct step if you want to have over a long time, a well performing computer.

[TheAgustin]

The mobo I suggest is not mandatory, any good desktop motherboard will work for me, as long as it hosts fast / enough memory and a fast CPU.

I'll buy you a beer or a cake if your suggestions help me out building a nice pc ;)

[zburns]

Please confirm that this is the cpu you intend to use in the single socket mobo: AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz ( This is the only question I have right now).

This line and below are comments on my really long early post: On my very long post (the thread before this one) where I was talking about the SQL Server 2008 R2 software and my confusion as to what was an application and what was an Operating System, questions remain about what you will do with your present software.

Although your Developer Software may be a simple part of the global (meaning all encompassing) 'community of SQL Server 2008 R2 versions', your present software and your intent to keep using what you have versus buying all new upgrades right now does impact your new build. So I think those questions have to be answered parallel to deciding on the new build. Hope I am making sense!

We can proceed with figuring out the hardware, but before you lock it in, we still need (at least I do) to know how new software and / or your existing software fits with the new build.

(I have been tied up the last few days; the delays do allow me time to sort thru the new software material in my long post in the last thread, let it simmer, generally some of it starts to make more sense after a short period of time)

[TheAgustin]

Yes, I would like building an AMD Phenom II X6 3.3ghz with whatever bigest memory I can get, and the best mother board it can fit.

Alternatively I would like to put together a server computer with AMD 4180 6 cores 2.6Ghz in a dual socket c32 in whatever motherboard it fits.

I feel I'm not getting any closer to a conclusion, so whatever suggestions as to what components to use will be good.

I just want the see how much would cost the server computer and how much the desktop computer, what pieces it would contain, and then I'll take a decision.

[zburns]

TheAgustin,
I think I finallysee some daylight on what I have been looking for and cannot find. I kept looking for motherboards that would accept 32 Gb (divisible by 2 for dual channel) or 24 Gb (divisible by 3 for triple channel). I spent a lot of time looking for a single socket desktop motherboard with 32 or 24 Gb RAM capacity. You seem to feel that 8 gb of memory on an older quad that appears to be using all 4 cores is the problem, the memory, that is. To me that implies that even a max of 16 Gb of memory does not guarantee futureproofing for another hangup. For example, Photoshop After Effects, appears to demand 24 gb -- no relation to your problem, just a similar example.

A dual cpu motherboard that will accept a lot of RAM seems to make the most sense. Here is a Asus server mobo (dual RAM) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131670 that has 8 slots for RAM ( 4 per cpu ) with a max capacity of 128GB(RDIMM) / 32GB(UDIMM). It is a dual socket C32 for two Opteron 4100 series cpus 4/6 core. I want to look for a triple channel mobo because it will run faster than the dual channel with the same cpus and make more efficient use of your RAM than dual channel.

Assume you use a single AMD cpu 6 core processor on a mobo with 32 Gb of RAM max capacity. With 4 slots, that would be 8 Gb per slot. I think there are problems trying to use any 8 Gb sticks of RAM whether one or two cpus. I also, think 32 Gb of RAM feeding one 3.6 Ghz 4 or 6 core processor is too much RAM for the processor (more about this later). I spent a lot of time last week trying to find motherboards for one cpu with 32 Gb RAM capacity, found only a couple; finally my thinking led me to believe that 32 Gb is too much for a single cpu. Cannot prove it right now, just a hunch at the moment.

Cpus for servers have lots of RAM to feed multiple processors but they run at a lower frequency. There are other issues to find out about. Does Win 7 support two Opteron 4100 cpus, 6 cores? . . . and so on. Tomorrow I should be able to find some more mobos hopefully a triple channel.

[TheAgustin]

I will probably be running Windows Server 2008 or above, so I don't think the amount of memory would be a problem.

32gb is a little expensive (4 x 8gb), any chance I could use 24 gbs of ram ? what would be the setup for 24gb of ram ? How to pick the right memory type ?

Thanks for your interest man !

[zburns]

I will do more later today, probably. But a quick comment relative to your above post. The advantage of using two cpus on a mobo that has 4 slots for RAM at each cpu location means that to reach 32 GB or even 24 GB, you have 8 slots available to load up. So 8 slots at 4gig equal 32. 8 slots at 3 gig equal 24, and you might be able to use the low cost RAM rather than the higher registered RAM cost -- have not looked at that yet. But this seems to answer your question, at least partly, about RAM cost. (There may be an advantage to using the Registered RAM)

Another comment in support of the double cpu mobo is the total amount of RAM being 24 or 32. It is hard (I think) to find many mobos for only one cpu but with 24 or 32 gig RAM slot capacity -- this means to me that one possibility as to why there are not many available is that it is not a good idea! Probably means too much memory for the speed of the cpu.

[zburns]

Here is a link to Wikipedia regarding single channel RAM versus Dual Channel RAM, (and by implication, tripple channel RAM). The Wikipedia article points out discussions in which dual channel has no advantage over single channel but at the same time 'other' example (s) where dual channel is definitely better. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-channel_architecture

The reason I bring this up is in regard to your older existing quad. You never actually saw on your TASKMAN any proof that all four cores were in a high percentage usage when running your Win Server 2008 R2 application; we are assuming all four cores do operate at a decent, meaningful percent so far. You have said your 8 gig of RAM tops out and is the cause of the delay.

Let us assume that four cores on your present quad are quite 'efficient when running Server 2008 R2 (an application) with Vista as the OS. Probably your existing motherboard DOES NOT have Dual Channel RAM configuration, but 'early design' single channel only.

If your present computer is, in fact, topping out at 8 gig, and your present RAM is only single channel, and your cpu operates all four cores at a high (or decent) percent when the RAM is topped out, and your mobo has single channel RAM (not dual channel), then these are the conditions that would probably let you realize a 'gain' or 'problem solved' situation even if your new build is a six core, single cpu (mobo single socket), dual channel RAM -- but you do not know this without actually doing the build and then test the new build.

A new build with a single socket and 16 Gb of RAM is an obvious improvement over your existing quad, but there is not way to predict the percent improvement or the 'futureproofing' of such a new build.

On the other hand, a dual socket, 6 core, new configuration with 32 gig RAM, or more, is 'a giant leap over the present 'old build' by Gateway'; there is no question that you should see much better performance of this type build versus a single socket new build, both new builds measured against the old build. Also, RAM topping out would no longer be a possibility.

The above is hypothetical at the moment, but the logic of it seems without fault. The dual socket build will be more expensive primarily in terms of the mobo and extra cpu -- but the 'theoretical gain' in performance seems huge.

[zburns]

I am finally back. Here are links to three late model motherboards that work with the AMD Phenom II cpu you specified. These are three popular and trusted manufacturers, as I am sure you know. In addition, there is the AsRock mobo you have already mentioned; so I include that link also. These links are for the mobo manufacturers websites. After I give you these, I will also list the Newegg sites which will provide usa prices for the various mobos, the cpu. Nothing on the RAM yet. The MSI mobo will take up to 32 gig RAM, the Asus and Gigabyte, 16 gig RAM. The ASROCK, 32 RAM, as I recall. However, the AsRock spec for the board below only shows a max of 16 gig; so I assume I have an error somewhere to locate.

Here are the four manufacturers links:
Asus: http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/Crosshair_IV_Extreme/#overview
MSI: http://www.msi.com/product/mb/990FXA-GD80.html#?div=Detail
Gigabyte: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3781#ov
AsRock: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=890FX%20Deluxe4

Here are the newegg links: For Asus, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131644 ; for Gigabyte, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128441 ; AsRock, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157208 Note: The MSI version does not appear to be distributed in the USA.

The above mobos are all late models in that USB 3.0 (albeit in a minimum way) and Sata 6gbs is provided; AsRock may have USB 3.0 for the front panel of the case. Win 7 (Vista, maybe) and your Server 2008 R2 App should work ok.

I have some questions about the dual socket Opteron motherboards and the Opteron cpus, supporting Operating Systems; questions that will explain whether the OS supports 8 or 12 cores running at a high percent of full load. Whether the server dual processor software allows full use of the two cpus, 8 or 12 cores total, running at full speed needs to be known. The above single 6 core cpu configuration should work and will be the less expensive than the dual Opteron. However, the Opteron may not be 'that' much more expensive; it is a question, first, of performance.

For the single core systems stated at the beginning, RAM for 16 Gbyte will not be a problem. You would be using four 4Gigbyte sticks on anyone of the four mobos. The MSI motherboard does support 32 Gbyte and that would be 4 sticks, 8 Gbyte each which is expensive.

[zburns]

Here is a link to a forum DVDFab.com, the first and second threads or posts are by AMD new users of the Phenom II 3.6 ghz 6 core processor. The first post really worth reading. A really good and well written endorsement of this AMD 6 core cpu. Second post, as well. Here is the link: http://forum.dvdfab.com/showthread.php?t=12326