Will Prolimatech "Armageddon" CPU heat sink fit in the Antec Sonata III case?

[moonpig]

I am planning on using an ASUS P8P67 PRO motherboard in the Antec Sonata III case currently recommended on mysuperpc's home page.

Will the Prolimatech "Armageddon" CPU heat sink fit with dimensions:

(L)144mm X (W)50mmX (H)160.3mm

fit in this that case with this motherboard?
(see http://www.prolimatech.com/en/products/detail.asp?id=156&subid=415#showtab)

Antec's site lists the Sonata III's dimensions as:

42.5cm (H) x 20.6cm (W) x 46.3cm (D) = 425mm (H) x 206mm (W) x 463mm (D)

(See http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjA= )

The simple math of:

Sonata III's W= 206.0mm
Armageddon's -H= 160.3mm
-------------- ------------
Clearance = 45.7mm

There appears to be 45.7mm of clearance WITHOUT the motherboard.
Asus's site simply lists that the ASUS P8P67 PRO has ATX Form Factor
12 inch x 9.6 inch ( 30.5 cm x 24.4 cm ) (see http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8P67_PRO/#specifications), which
does not give me any clue as to how high the (motherboard + cpu) point will be at which the heat sink will connect to the CPU, i.e.

motherboard H = ???
CPU H = +???
Armageddon H = +160.3mm
-------------- ---------
Total Height = ???

If TotalHeight < 206mm (width of case), then I'm in business.

Can anyone fill in the ??? above or give me a thumbs up based on personal experience with a Prolimatech Armageddon heat sink in a Sonata III case?

Thanks

[RickyTick]

Zburns has a Sonata III. He could probably help.

[zburns]

Hi Moonpig,

I do have a Sonata III and I would buy another assuming my components would fit neatly into it. Very nice case with a professional appearance. I am just going to give you one dimension right now but I will be glad to add other measurements if this does not tell you what you need. I took a picture of my rig with the side cover off showing my wiring, cooler, case structure, etc.. I will have to wait until tomorrow morning am to post the picture with comments. You will need to look at the vertical clearance (which is enough), my wiring, the stuff on the mobo that you might need access too, etc.. The picture will tell you more than I can.

The height of your proposed cooler is 160.3 mm, apx 6.31". From the top surface of my Asus mobo (right beside my cooler), it is apx 7 3/8 " to the removable side cover. This dimension is the dimension your cooler height of apx 6.31" compares to, but you must add the thickness of the cpu chip itself to 6.31" . If you assume 1/4" for the mounted height of the cpu, then the cooler height - 6.31"- plus 0.250" is 6.56" (apx 6- 9/16"), leaving a line to line clearance of 7- 3/8" minus 6-9/16" or 0.815" ( right at 13/16" left over unused space).

I routinely work in inches. I just converted the cooler numbers to inches (25.4 mm equals one inch). More tomorrow am! Hope this helps!

EDIT, about 10:15pm. I just looked at your mobo pictures on Newegg. I calculated a combined height for the cpu plus the cooler, but I did not even think about the mobo 'socket' for the cpu. By enlarging the picture, I estimate the height of the socket to be about 3/8" (at least) off the mobo surface (compared the socket height to the 6 audio I/O female plugs on the left side of the mobo. I have the same audio module on my mobo.) So this apx 3/8" extra will cut the clearance down by that amount, leaving about 7/16" clear (plus or minus any approximations).

More in the morning!!

[zburns]

Hi Moonpig, good afternoon. This post is only about getting the side view picture of my computer posted. There are three "pages" to the picture. Next I will give you three separate instructions about how to go from page to page and why!

1. Here is the link to what I call the 'Picture Home Page': http://www.flickr.com/photos/zburns/5664271949/in/photostream/ This link takes you to a Flickr page with a small or medium picture of the computer. Along the outside top of the pic, on the right, you will see a small magnifying glass symbol. Click on the 'mag glass' -- see next step.

2. After clicking on the magnifying glass, you go to a 'full screen Lightbox with a large picture of the computer and a otherwise black background on all sides of the picture. By Clicking on one of the following two options -- the monitor screen upper left 'Back Button' OR look to the right in the black backgound, upper right, and you see a comment 'to increase picture size' -- you now will go to a third page.

3. The third page allows you to alter the size of the picture, I guess, to get the largest image. Anyway, as you go away from the 'Lightbox large picture with black background', you will now be on the 'third page of this process'. To CYCLE BACK to the HOME PAGE (where you started), do the following: Click on the word 'PHOTO' in large royal blue print in the upper left portion of the screen. Clicking on PHOTO will take you back to what I called the HOME PAGE.

Again the purpose of this post is simply to tell viewers how to run thru the three pages in order and get back to the starting point. I just set this up this am, and I had to spend too much time figuring it out, so hopefully, I can save others that lost time!

I will do another post and give you my comments on the cooler in the next post -- they will all be common sense comments, etc.. Ask me any question about the Sonata III, my comments, etc.. I can respond fairly quickly from this point on. Last nite we were techincally in the path of the Alabama bad weather, which turned out awful as we all now know.

[zburns]

Here are my comments about this cooler divided into two parts: (1) Comments about the cooler fitting inside the Sonata case and (2) comments about using a cooler as large as this one. Section 2 for comments will be another post.

First, how it fits inside the case and the "pluses and minuses" of using the cooler.

So how well does it fit inside the case. I looked at a straight - on photo of your motherboard choice on Newegg, measured the size of it as the photo showed it and the dimension from the top to the center of the cpu socket. By using ratios of the photo distances versus the specified size of the mobo, I determined that the cpu socket is about 3.530" from the top of the mobo.

My Asus mobo is the same outside dimension as your choice. If you look at the largest picture you can of my Sonata case, the top of the mobo starts just at the level of the bottom side of the case top crossbar running from the rear to the five inch top drive bay structure. The PSU sits on this crossbar.

Based on the Newegg Asus photo, the approximate center of the cpu socket is 3.530" from the lower side of the crossbar. The vertical length (height) of the cooler is 5.66".

Again, using the newegg photo, I measured from the PCI Express 2.0 x 16 slot to the under side of the crossbar, and I confirmed that that measurement appears to be the same as the distance from my same PCI E slot to the underside of the crossbar -- 7.25 inches from the photo and from my case.

Subtract the height of the cooler, 5.66", when installed (they - the mfg - calls it 'length') from 7.25", divide by two and you have about 0.7950" clear at each end.

Problems, that I feel like are there but I cannot be sure, have to do with the cooler blocking air flow because of the physical size of the cooler and the relative smaller size of the Sonata case in height primarily. (Edit:10:45pm) I am sure the cooler will handle the cpu just fine; it is the physical size of the cooler causing interference with the smooth flow of air thruout the rest of the cabinet that I see as a problem. (end EDIT)

Look at the picture. Video card at the bottom. At the top, the top end of the cooler almost reaches the cross bar; it leaves less than an inch for air from the top front of the case to move to the rear; however, the psu has a fan in it, the area in front of it remains open, so maybe air can move ok, provided the case is not loaded up with multiple 5 inch and 3.5 " drives. But, the psu fan is not a large fan, so just how much air will it really move? No way to know!

Go to the bottom of the cooler; as at the top, it gets 3/4 inch plus some clearance with respect to the circuit board of the video card.

You have the large cooler (sort of) blocking the center section of the case, allowing some air to go around it but there is no way to really know how much without actually measuring it.

You have the rear exhaust fan plus the cooler fan (which you have to add to the cooler) sucking on the upper 2/3 of the front of the cabinet. It sort of looks like it would work, not that much heat generated by a single DVD drive and one, maybe two HDs.

The other problem or inconvenience I see has to do with the shear bulk size of the cooler plus a inch thick fan fastened to the hard drive side of the cooler. The excess wiring will have to be stuffed in the center top open area and tied off so that it cannot touch the top of the cooler.

The cooler fan almost has to be on the hard drive side of the cooler. If the fan is on the other side (rear side), it will physically be larger than the rear fan and will tend to cause cpu exiting cooled air to dominate the area (incl the air) between the cpu and the rear fan.

The top of the cooler fins will sit underneath the PSU about 1 1/4" from the PSU. It will somewhat limiting to air flow from the front of the cabinet over the top of the cooler fins and the bottom of the PSU. Air turbulence may exist at the top of the cooler and also, where the PSU ends abruptly.

Summary: It fits but it is just big, a nuisance to blow out dust, etc.. Liquid cooling with the little small heat exchanger on the cpu end makes the most sense if you want to use the Sonata Case. Edit - Friday am -- By using liq cooling w/small heat exchanger on the cpu, the area between the cpu and the rear fan would be opened up, so that the primary use of the rear exhaust fan goes to 'pulling and exhausting air' from the entire cabinet.

On the other hand, if you used a Antec Nine Hundred case, it is about 2 inches taller and that helps with some of the perceived problems.

[zburns]

The other comment I mentioned at the beginning has to do with the weight and physical size of the cooler. It weights 2 lbs. The center of mass of the cooler is about 3 inches off the cpu and an additional 1/4" to 1/2" (allowance for cpu and socket) off the motherboard.

Anytime you move the computer cabinet you have to be very careful not to let any part of the cabinet come down from a 'carry position' with a 'jolt' or 'drop' to a desk or any surface. If the cabinet is dropped, then the large mass of the cooler acts both as a hammer and a crowbar on the combination of cpu, socket and motherboard. No problem moving as long as gentle handling is always done.

If the computer was moved some distance or shipped, it would be best to remove the cooler, and, probably the hard drives as well. Regardless, obviously if a computer is moved, it should be done with great care. For example, if the computer was moved some distance via automobile, the case should be laid on its large side to which the mobo (and the cooler) is mounted. Such a position alleviates much of the 'torque forces' due to the 'cantilevered cooler' trying to bounce up and down during transport. But this position puts the Hard Drives in the worst position (drives vertical, not horizontal), mechanically, and would put stress on the center 'axis' (spindles).

EDIT--Friday: The larger the cooler, the greater the mass, the more instataneous torque put against the mobo and cpu if the computer case is handled roughly, as in the case tipped on one side, and let go or dropped, moved about with rough handling, subjected to vibration while being transported. This is a good argument in favor of the small 'mass' of a liquid cooler 'heat exchanger' applied to the cpu heatsink instead of the very large coolers.

[zburns]

I wanted to add to the above post some further comments in order to emphasize the comments above regarding 'moving a computer'. Recently there was a brief forum discussion from one member about having his new build -- built elsewhere -- and the new computer 'shipped' to him. This build included one of the very large air coolers. The cooler remained installed in the computer for the shipment. During shipment, the 'cooler' and its parts vibrated loose withing the cabinet causing significant damage, and perhaps ruined the entire build.

I read just recently on another forum a comment about external hard drives just sitting on the computer desk, thereby, allowing the easy movement of the external drive, turning them on their sides, bumping them, etc.. The writer made a summarizing statement to the effect, that he had seen multiple 'early' failures of such drives sitting out on a desk, yet he had also observed very minimal failure of installed drives within the computer cabinet. It was his comments that I based my comments on 'hard drive precautions when moving a computer'. Think about how 'simple and easy it is to take out a hard drive' from your cabinet, wrap it in soft padding in advance of a significant move, etc..

The writer in making his comments about the 'external hard drives' did not emphasize what he was saying, just normal 'conversation' but I would characterize his comments as 'significant' regards the topic of 'protecting and preserving hard drive mechanical integrity'.