programs not responding, ram issue?

[tbonehmb]

Hey there, I finished building my first PC a couple of weeks ago and so far it has been running great aside from one consistent issue. In any program I'm running, be it Firefox, iTunes, word, or games I have been having issues. What happens is the program shows the not responding error and I cannot click anything in it. I still am able to move my mouse around while this is going on but that's it. Usually after about a minute or so it will start working back to normal. Hopefully someone will have an idea about what may be causing this. Thanks!


Processor: Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor

Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Motherboard

RAM: CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

PSU: CORSAIR 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply (Model:CMPSU-850TX)



Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

[zburns]

Hello Tbone! This week I finally got thru an issue of my own, same problem for the second time, and it was the RAM. My computer would run "sort of ok"; in my case the operation was just 'slow' (at the beginning, looking back) and then 'slowness started happening consistently' -- for example a mouse click and nothing for a few seconds (maybe as long as five seconds). I removed all RAM but one stick which put me back to normal speed, consistent speed, consistent operation over a period of days now. I only point out my example to demostrate how a computer will work with defective RAM in place.

RAM is the place before the cpu that 'data organization' (best words I could think of) must occur for the cpu to proceed -- so it would seem that any circumstance where the computer 'eventually' performs could be a result of faulty RAM (just one component on one stick) .


Usually after about a minute or so it will start working back to normal.This statement means what exactly? Does the computer keep working ok after the first instance or does the 'senario' repeat itself after it starts to work? -- Said differently, when you say ". . . . it will start working back to normal", will it run from that point on perfectly ok with no delays, etc.. Or does the problem 'randomly' show up again in the middle of so called 'normal' operation. There should be a noticable 'pattern' of the problem occuring, then things work, problem reoccurs (randomly or not?), etc.

CHANGE THE SUBJECT:
What happens is the program shows the not responding error and I cannot click anything in it. I still am able to move my mouse around while this is going on but that's it. Usually after about a minute or so it will start working back to normal. This statement is not complete -- what happens after your computer 'starts working back to normal' -- does this mean for the next half hour or hour or the rest of the day that you can use the computer constantly and with no repeat occurences of the problem you describe? When the problem repeats, what triggers 'the problem repeating'. If your problem goes away after a minute and stays away or only shows up when you click the mouse, then you probably have a 'random mouse problem'. If your mouse is wireless you could have a 'line of sight (or lack of) problem' between the mouse and the wireless receptor on the computer (for example, on my wireless keyboard and mouse, my USB receiver is plugged into the front of my Sonata case -- keyboard and mouse constantly 'look directly at the receiver'. If I rotate the case so that 'line of sight is very poor or non existent or if I superimpose my body between the receiver and the keyboard and mouse, then 'my operation becomes weird' -- works sometimes, sometimes not, sometimes slow.)

Sorry to be so long with my explanations but I am trying to describe your problem in terms of RAM or a problem with wireless transmission (assuming you have this)!

[tbonehmb]

Hey Zburns, thanks for the response. Sorry my explanation earlier was a bit confusing. So far I have not been able to observe any particular pattern in the way that this error is occurring. I'm fairly confident this is not a mouse problem because I do use a wired mouse. I only mentioned that I was able to move the mouse around while the problem was occurring to show that it is not a complete screen freeze where I can do nothing. To elaborate on what happens, I will be in the middle of browsing the web or playing games and when in windowed mode I am able to see a small blue wheel (kind of like the rainbow wheel on Macs) and the program I am using will stop responding. This generally lasts for a minute or so, then the program will stop displaying the not responding error, and be exactly as I had it before the freeze. As I said earlier there is really no pattern to it, so sometimes it will freeze up once again shortly after an error or other times it will work fine for hours at a time.

I'm currently using 3 sticks of 2gb ram. I did check in my mobo manual and they are supposed to be compatible. The ram is ddr3 and I believe 1600mhz. When I checked in my bios settings (which up to now I have left as default) the default ram speed (I'm probably not using the right term here) was at 1066mhz. Could this be causing the problem? If not, what other steps should I take from here to solve the problem which most likely is related to my ram. Thanks so much.

[RickyTick]

This doesn't sound like a ram problem to me. My first gut feeling is that it's a software issue.

[tbonehmb]

Hmm okay. Well I'm using Windows 7 64 bit...Arethere any tests I should run or something to check if there is a problem?

[zburns]

Hi Ricky, While you guys are talking, I am writing my latest edition of crazy ideas! Help me out here on what I am saying!

Hey Tbone: This post may be confusing but do not take it that way. This is only information that I am providing. I have spent a lot of time looking at this topic regards RAM memory speed for intel quad processors. If you look at i7 950 specs, see Wikipedia, here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors . Here is the memory spec for all the i7s: DDR3-1066 0.8–1.375 V . There is another Intel spec sheet that refers to the fact that regardless of memory used, if above 1066, the cpu or the cpu in combo with the chipset will "downclock" the memory speed to 1066. I looked for hours for explanations for this and never found anything that I considered absolutely 'clear' and 'trustworthy'.

But in looking at other forum member builds, it seemed that everyone was setting the memory speed in the BIOS to the speed of the memory, and, presumably setting the correct voltage for that particular speed. Absolutely no thoughts or consideration given to including overclocking in these statements. Only the specified speed of the memory.

Either I missed something entirely regards specified memory speeds on intel i7 quads or this situation is just ignored. The mobo manufacturers advertise a max memory speed for their mobos way above 1066, and so on. As far as I know on the i7 builds I looked at, I always got the impression -- specified memory speeds were used in the BIOS -- and this is probably what you should do. Also, you should set the voltage to agree with Corsairs recommendation for your memory.

Your motherboard manual may say something about this. I would also hope other forum members comment on 'your present BIOS settings' for memory being set to 'default'. I hope Ricky and any other forum member who has built a i7 950 will post their BIOS settings for their memory. Using the voltage specified by the mfg is just common sense.

For your part, I would wait for some feedback from others before making changes; just see what some other opinions are. There should be no reason not to set the speeds and voltages at the Corsair values. Intel will automatically downclock your speed to 1066, according to Intel. This to me is where you start. But I would really like to see other comments.

[zburns]

It is easy to prove RAM or not. Just run one stick at a time, watch for the behavior of the problem or absence of the problem. If it is RAM, it will show itself. However before you do it, I would be certain you are set to the right speed in BIOS and the right voltage for that speed according to Corsair. I would prefer a fixed voltage setting rather than 'trust' an 'Auto' setting. Best to know precisely what your settings are. Then run one stick at a time.

You already know how often the problem occurs and what it looks like. It will be the same behavior or patterns with just one stick running.

[zburns]

I was able to move the mouse around while the problem was occurring to show that it is not a complete screen freeze where I can do nothing. To elaborate on what happens, I will be in the middle of browsing the web or playing games and when in windowed mode I am able to see a small blue wheel (kind of like the rainbow wheel on Macs) and the program I am using will stop responding. This generally lasts for a minute or so, then the program will stop displaying the not responding error, and be exactly as I had it before the freeze.

Your words above. Does this happen everytime? Or does part of what you say above happen everytime? Or is there anything in the above short para that 'happens everytime'?


when in windowed mode I am able to see a small blue wheel (kind of like the rainbow wheel on Macs) and the program I am using will stop responding. I am not criticizing or complaining but this quote with the way it is written seems to say that this exact process from (when in windowed mode . . . . . . and the program I am using will stop responding.) is happening everytime on every failure.

[RAM failures as I envision them have to be random in content of the words or pictures and random with regards to text and to the time of occurence. If your RAM voltages are not within the spec of the manufacturer for the frequency being run at (1600), that could make the RAM electronics more sensitive to failure including random failure. If you purchased the RAM on sale and the manufacturer wanted to get rid of the stock because there is some weird failure mode, then that is just defective from a manufacturing viewpoint.] -- Everything I just put in brackets is just an explanation, me to you, about how I see RAM failing.

But if you have specific failures at specific software points on your screen, I am not saying it is impossible for it to be RAM but very unlikely.

My last question. The little blue wheel -- does it show itself everytime prior to the program not responding?

[tbonehmb]

The short paragraph describes what happens every time the error occurs. That description is what happens everytime on every failure. However, the times that it will occur are completely random, sometimes happening every few minutes and sometimes happening every few hours. The blue wheel can be seen every time the error occurs when I'm using a program not in fullscreen mode, and I can move it around. When I'm in fullscreen like starcraft, the default mouse will remain and no blue wheel appears. However, in both instances the results of the error are the same, disabling me from performing any action for around a minute.

[zburns]

From the time you finished the build, have you been running a good anti virus/antimalware program on a routine basis? I assume you are using Windows 7, 64 bit in the new build! What OS and ______ bit were you using on the old build? Did you move any software from the old build to the new build?

I am not giving up on the RAM but I am wondering about anything moved to the new build that might have a conflict with Win 7, 64 bit. A virus or malware could probably do what you are seeing.

[RickyTick]

Yeah, I agree. There could be some malware running in the background that's hogging system resources. Download and run malwarebytes.com and see if anything pops up.

Maybe try this. http://www.whatsrunning.net/ or this http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653 this will be helpful with Process Explorer http://media.ask-leo.com/ebooks/introtoprocexp.pdf

You should also verify that all drivers are up to date too.

[tbonehmb]

well this was my very first build, so everything was from scratch all parts new. os is windows 64 bit. i'm using macafee for my antivirus protection. thanks for the links rickyticky i'll try them out tomorrow and make sure the drivers are up to date and let you know the results.

[zburns]

Hi Tbone: Assuming things have not changed, I do have a few new suggestions. First a recommendation, and, that is regardless of what I recommend, please do not jump right now and start doing things. I can recommend some ideas that are safe to do and are sort of independant of any other ideas. You do not want to fall into a trap where you randomly do 'five' things that interconnect or interrelate, thereby giving you a lot of possible outcomes - on the order of 20 or more - which would be total confusion.

#1. First, on the possibility of the RAM being the cause. You have 3 sticks. Label them A, B and C. Instead of running tripple channel, run dual channel, just two sticks. You have three possible combinations. AB, BC and AC. Run each combination long enough to know you have outlived the time in which a failure should have occured. Lets say combo AB runs 2 hours and fails, BC runs one hour and fails, but AC runs 12 hours and never fails, that would probably mean that stick labeled B is the bad boy. This is a safe test to start running right now. Using two sticks instead of three should not slow things down so badly that it will 'bug' you - you might not even notice a slowdown. In running the test, since the problem happens when browsing, I would not run games, just browsing initially. If you are satisfied that the browser runs differently (meaning a lot better), then run a game -- that kind of logic.

# 2. What edition of Firefox are you using. From google, Firefox 4 RC appears to be latest version available. If this is what you are running, consider switching to IE 8 which should be bug free; switch at least long enough to absolutely find the problem.

Now: Forget suggestions 1 and 2 above for the moment. Go to this Tom's Hardware link and read the entire thread or post several times. The problem seems identical. Asus motherboard is used. While the guy with the problem says at the end 'exactly what the problem is', it is not entirely clear to me because there is almost no discussion on the problem, only that he is now fixed in terms of no on screen freezing. -- Unless I misread something, the guy with the problem describes it exactly as you have described your problem.

Here is the link: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/281430-30-asus-m4a785-random-freeze-resume Here is the title of the Post: -- [Solved] Asus m4a785-m Random freeze then resume --

There are two areas of blame. The fact that Norton security (AV and malware) was downloaded, sort of automatically, and, then, either the author or one responder blames ASUS Utilities which you could have downloaded from the Asus mobo disc supplied with the mobo. -- Repeating some things: I read the article several times and I will look at it some more; however, my impression is that the problem was determined and fixed; problem being Norton and/or Asus Utilities. -- I cannot tell which because of the way the discussion went, but it appears to be one of the two.

So the question is exactly what did you do with the Asus disk in the way of downloads? You can search your installed software and look for Norton and anything with the Asus name in front of it. You can then put the 'presumed offenders' into the trash bin one at a time or in a group (write it all down). For example you do not need Norton, and whatever the utilities are, you probably do not need them at least right at the moment. First, I would look for Norton being installed and put it into Trash and retest your system. We have all heard about conflicts between AV and malware software(multiple installs) having conflicts.

Summary Statement: The Tom's forum article appears to be an exact replica of your problem and is dated 2010, so I would give that precedence. After exhausting Tom's, I would then turn to my suggestion 1 or 2. Ricky Tick is far more experienced with software than I am so any comments he makes about any of this, I would recommend following his suggestions.

[zburns]

After writing the above post yesterday, it occured to me that my reference was a UK location and that Norton may have only been specific to the UK, not the US. I googled "asus offering norton" -- got a whole page of stuff. Here are three links from that page that definitely tie Norton to Asus. Before I give the links, here are some more comments, I think are pertinent: (1) Your Asus mobo manual can logically be divided into two parts. One part, the motherboard instructions, is very specific as to the details of how to install it, settings, specifications, etc. -- this part written by or approved by engineers with direct knowledge of this particular motherboard. The other part is what may be called Utilities that are common to all (many or most) Asus mobos, and their content can stay the same for some periods of time, long or short, and these sections, presumably, are written by different individuals according to each writers expertise. The software utilities that are common to some or all Asus motherboards are part of your manual. Simply put, this 'applicable to all' part of the manual written by different entities could let in 'software stuff that is non-compatible'. I am not saying that is what has happened, but based on the UK Tom's forum article, that seems to be the case.

Here are the three links: (1) http://www.symantec.com/about/news/release/article.jsp?prid=20090108_01 (worldwide norton link); (2) http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Internet-Security-Norton/norton-disables-Asus-mother-board-updates/td-p/162418 (norton forum link -- title of each post is: Re: norton disables Asus mother board updates) (3) http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=31122431 (AnandTech forum dated Jan 2011, all about norton. -- these forum comments connect norton to 2011, and therefore, your mobo, presumably)

From reading the Tom's article, the details of the problem expressed appear to be exactly the same as yours. I cannot see this as 'coincidence'; the odds on 'coincidence' are zero. Whatever caused the problem expressed in the Tom's article has to be the same problem you are experiencing. Whether it is Norton related or Asus Utilities related, I have no way of even guessing. Your solution is to look at your installed software and remove anything related to Norton (assuming it has been loaded w/o your knowledge and also remove all non-essential Asus Utilities). You send them to the waste bin -- if any are pertinent or necessary you can always reverse the 'trash bin' action.

Of the links above, the first 'symantec' link is a public anouncement about Norton/Asus in a world wide deal, multi year, to include norton as part of the Asus product line; the second link is a quick read; the third link connects norton to 2011 and therefore, Tbones mobo.

I apologize for the detail and length. This is your first build. If the above describes your problem, this is not something you should be facing on a 'first build', so hopefully the detail helps, explanation wise.

Please to not interpret my comments as negative towards Asus. My present motherboard is an Asus board; am quite pleased with it. They are innovators and great engineers. My comments are directed towards a simple (I hope) software glitch.