Possibly a Really Dumb Question...

[Khapheen]

I feel like this is something I should know, having been through this before, BUT...

When I built my last PC, there was wireless on the mobo, and a little antenna that screwed into the back. Since I connect to the Internet re: a wireless router in another room, do I need to order something that will allow my new PC to connect?

The motherboard I'm looking at is:

ASUS M4A88TD-M - AM3 - AMD 880G - DDR3 - SATA 6Gb/s - ASUS Core Unlocker - ATX Motherboard
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ICWAVO

Like I said, I probably should know already, but didn't really think about it until now.

[RickyTick]

Looks like you need a wireless adapter. Maybe something like this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320048

[zburns]

Try this link to a microsoft page, self explanatory: http://www.microsoft.com/athome/organization/wirelesssetup.aspx

Here is a para near the bottom third of the page to identify what made me suggest it to you. (I have wireless keyboard and mouse. They communicate with small USB (2.0) adapter plugged into the front of my Sonata III cabinet.) Sounds like you want the same kind of adapter except you have USB 3.0 which is much faster.

Here's the para: "If your desktop or laptop computer does not have built-in wireless support, you need to purchase a network adapter to wirelessly connect your computer to your wireless router. If you need an adapter for a desktop computer, buy a USB wireless network adapter. If you have a laptop, buy a PC card-based network adapter. Make sure that you have one adapter for every computer on your network."

Also, check your Asus manual for 'wireless support' to a LAN Router. If the manual does not mention it, hopefully, the microsoft page will help.

[zburns]

Matt, a further comment. If you are trying my suggestion, I did think of one possible 'hitch'. If you plug a USB wireless adapter into the I/O ports on the back of the case, it might be possible (just an assumption, have no way of knowing) to have some blockage or interference to the transmision to the router; direct line of sight may be important, etc.. If this were the case, a short extension cable to allow the adapter to 'be above your case' or 'be to one side of the case' , etc. might be necessary.

[Khapheen]

Hi guys,

First off, let me thank you for the fantastic help again -- I got my new PC put together yesterday (well, mostly new, since I saved the soundcard and PSU from what I had before) and it's running full speed ahead. I can definitely tell the difference a couple more cores and extra RAM can make, and couldn't be happier with it, except...

The only problem I'm having is that Internet connection is really, painfully slow. Opening up pages seems all right, but just downloading 140 MB document a moment ago took almost an hour. I would suspect the site came from, but there have been a few instances like that since last night.

Here is the wireless card I went with:

http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DWA-556-Express-Desktop-Adapter/dp/

It was a few dollars more expensive than the ASUS, but seem to have better reviews and offer higher performance. Did I choose wrong? Any suggestions?

[zburns]

Matt, when I click on your link, here is what I get:

" Looking for something?
We're sorry. The Web address you entered is not a functioning page on our site

Go to Amazon.com's Home Page "

How about just posting, the manufacturer's name and the product cat # of the manufacturer.

[Khapheen]

Sorry, not sure how I managed that...

What I got was a DLink Extreme N DWA-556

In case it helps, I have cable Internet through Comcast, which goes through a Motorola SB5101 cable modem, and then a Cisco router (not sure of the model # on that one, although I could probably find it).

There is about 20 feet and two walls between the modem/router and my computer. DLink software says the connection is good (running at 95% right now, it says), but web speeds and downloads are noticably sluggish, probably about 10% of what I was getting through the old motherboard.

I did have a small (2 ft?) antenna attached to the other mobo (it came with it), but can't think of what other info would be pertinent.

[zburns]

Your DLink device instructions say you can plug it into: Fits any standard PCI Express slot – x1, x4, x8, or x16. If you have it in a x1 slot, can you plug it into any higher slot, say x8?

As a measure of desperation, hard wire all the way to the modem -- what that really means is to pull the modem right up to your computer with a coax cable from the modem back to the existing cable point with a double male cable splice connector (should be plenty of those in your unused coax outlets in some room of the house. I am only suggesting this if it is practical and quick; it would (by elimination) pinpoint where the problem is.)

[Khapheen]

Hi zburns,

I don't think it would fit into a different slot. It's not a "full-sized" card, and I only had one spot on my mobo where it looked like it would plug in. Maybe I can give it a try tonight, though.

I can't really attach it to a coax all across the apt, but my suspicion is that the problem is with the new equip since the Internet worked so well on my previous setup.

[RickyTick]

20 feet and 2 walls should not slow down 802.11n very much at all.

First thing I would do is update the firmware in the router. It's very easy, and quick. Once you update, power down the router and the modem. Let them sit for a minute, and then plug in the modem, give it a minute, then plug in the router.

then...
Go to speedtest.net and check your speeds. This is mine as an example.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1160709612.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

If you're still not as fast as you think it should be, contact your ISP and have them check you connection for packet loss. They want you to be happy, so they'll be glad to help you.

[zburns]

Your DLink device instructions say you can plug it into: "Fits any standard PCI Express slot – x1, x4, x8, or x16". If you have it in a x1 slot, can you plug it into any higher slot, say x8?

As a measure of desperation, hard wire all the way to the modem -- what that really means is to pull the modem right up to your computer with a coax cable from the modem back to the existing cable point with a double male cable splice connector (should be plenty of those in your unused coax outlets in some room of the house. I am only suggesting this if it is practical and quick; it would (by elimination) pinpoint where the problem is.)

Here is probably the 'best first thing to do'. What documentation do you have that tells you your router is compatible with DLink device? It sounds like your speeds are being 'automatically' minimized or 'divided downard' to the 'least' speed.

On the same page that I saw the PCI Express slot speeds, there is a 'terms and conditions' on the lower right. First para worth reading.

You are working. It is just slow -- you are off by a 'multiplication' factor. Or there is some fixed delay in the transmission that is taking up X amount of time with no data moving.

Comcast service over the phone is not bad. There operators (at least in our area) read from a menu based on what you tell them. It is like they have a list of solutions to X number of problems that can be described over the phone.

Again -- You are transmitting. A speed factor is the difference. Something like this is always simple or straightforward in the end. If you have too email or call their support line if you cannot fine it.

[Khapheen]

I'll give that a try. I downloaded drivers from the DLink site, but didn't make a difference. Running speedtest, I got a score of .7, so I'll give Comcast a shout.

[zburns]

I should have mentioned this earlier. Unplug your modem and pull the eathernet cable from it. Let it sit several minutes, plug the power back in, leave it alone for a minute or so. Then plug in the ethernet cable. This was a routine from Roadrunner and also, Charter Cable. The modem has some kind of memory that reaches a limit. (But not your problem, but no big deal to do it).

[RickyTick]

I should have mentioned this earlier. Unplug your modem and pull the eathernet cable from it. Let it sit several minutes, plug the power back in, leave it alone for a minute or so. Then plug in the ethernet cable. This was a routine from Roadrunner and also, Charter Cable. The modem has some kind of memory that reaches a limit. (But not your problem, but no big deal to do it).

Hey...that's kinda what I said. :)



First thing I would do is update the firmware in the router. It's very easy, and quick. Once you update, power down the router and the modem. Let them sit for a minute, and then plug in the modem, give it a minute, then plug in the router.

[zburns]

Matt, When I suggested plugging in to other slots, that is what is on your instructions with the wireless card; however, do not do it. I will try to check out if that is ok to plug smaller boards into longer slots. There is a keyway to orient the board, and, theoretically line up the pins that matter. Your supplier directly said that it was ok; but you are risking your new board and your mobo by doing it -- so again, DO NOT DO IT!

But here is another suggestion that is ok to do. You could take your whole rig into the room where the modem and router is. You have a short ethernet cable, so you could hook directly to the modem and bypass the router. This would let you verify correct internet download speed under a direct hook up which tells you the problem is in the wireless. Then hook it back up for wireless just 5 to 10 feet away and see what it does. Correct me if this is wrong, but you have not been on the internet with speed since putting in the new mobo -- so you have not absolutely pinned down where the problem is coming from!!

[Khapheen]

No worries, I haven't gotten to opening up the case again yet. Tried powering down the modem and router for a few mins again, but still pulled a .74 on the speedtest. Comcast rep blamed the modem or router, which I would be inclined to believe, except that Internet was so much faster on my old machine.

At the same time, a 3 month old laptop also pulled a .7, but upload speeds for all have been ~ 4.

Which is to say, at this point I'm thoroughly confused.

[zburns]

When I had modem problems both with Roadrunner in Charlotte years ago and about two years ago in Atlanta, both times reps with Roadrunner and Charter Cable had me unplug the power supply cable to the modem and the ethernet cable to the modem. Story was that there was a memory device (chip, I guess) inside the modem that had to discharge over a period of minutes. So if you have not unplugged the modem power cable from the back of the modem and unpluged the ethernet cable from the back of the modem, you should try that again and leave the router alone. I can only tell you that this is what I was told to do twice and it worked (all my systems hardwired -- no wireless). Leave them unplugged for a few minutes. Plug the power cable back in first, wait a minute, then plug in the ethernet cable. -- to the back of the modem.

Here is the reason for this post and I should have said it earlier. Your old mobo Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe came with the add on antenna for the back of the cabinet. If you had it sitting above the cabinet, the so called antenna had a 360 degree transmit area.

With the new wireless Lan card installed with an external antenna that comes out the back of the cabinet mounted low, the antenna does not have a 360 degree clear area of operation, so rotate your cabinet so that you know the antenna is 'so to speak' in a straight line of sight to the router (thru the walls).

The reason I mention this as a possibility is that my mouse and keyboard are wireless, and transmit to a USB wireless adapter plugged into the front of my case. They are only several feet away but the keyboard and mouse are lined up with the USB adapter on the case and vice versa. One time I decided to rotate my case so that it sat perpendicular to the same wall my monitor and table desk is up against. I had the case very forward to the front of the table, my mouse and keyboard pushed in toward the monitor. The positioning was such that there was not a full line of sight from the USB wireless adapter to the mouse and keyboard. Both the mouse and keyboard kept 'losing' data or 'dropping data'. Put up with it for about a day before it occured to me what the problem was. Rotated the case front back on an angle so that the adapter is clearly in view of both keyboard and mouse.
Everything fine from that point on.

[zburns]

My last post from last nite, stands alone, by itself, etc.. This question is about your laptop post. While your mobo was down and you were waiting, I do remember you saying you were ok because you used your laptop. The download speed is always several times faster than upload. So, I assume you are saying that the laptop is also not working with the speed it was a week ago when the desktop was down -- correct? And your laptop is wireless -- correct? Your new wireless card has nothing to do with the laptop -- correct?

Assuming we agree on all this, something has changed at the modem or router. Are we both on the same page, so far ?

[Khapheen]

Sorry, I haven't been that clear... the laptop has always been slow as well (really slow, tested the same .7 last night in a speedtest.net check), but I had just assumed it was some problem with the machine. Since I wasn't using it much for web work, I didn't worry about it. But it's never been good online, even when the old machine was working great.

Usually, the laptop is wireless, but last night I tried plugging the ethernet cable from the modem and into it directly to see if it would make a difference. Speednet gave me a reading of about 1.2, so a small difference, but not much. Plus, I was testing the wireless from a couple feet away from both the modem and the router.

What makes this strangest is that it's the two new computers in the house that aren't connecting at good speeds, where the old one seemed to be ok.

[Khapheen]

One other thing I should point out is that we have a Blu Ray player that's on the same network. We don't use it a lot to dowload movies, but when we do it seems fine.

[zburns]

This post will change direction as you get into it!! The information is accurate. There are three or four topics or problems described below; I tried to separate them with 'dashes ---------".

Several points. As I said earlier, the problem when solved will turn out to be simple. Also, I am not going to say anything you do not already know. You have a working Internet, it is just slow. You have two computers, each totally independant of each other, both running slow -- this fact says, that it is 'very likely' that both computers are fine and the problem is with router, modem or comcast.

My modem is an old style Ambit modem, first made by Motorola; in North Carolina, years ago, same modem, Roadrunner tech rep over the phone insisted I unplug the power and ethernet cable from the modem for 'some minutes' and then replug the power, let it wait several minutes and then plug in the ethernet (I think my problem at that time was no internet activity) -- anyhow his solution worked. Later in Georgia - two years ago - Charter Cable, same type modem, similar problem, did the same thing, problem solved -- unpluging the two cables solved the problem.

You have to assume, until proven otherwise, that Comcast is OK -- you assume they are not the problem until you 'logically' prove otherwise, one step at a time. There are several ways to approach this.

The easiest, if you agree that this is the easiest and most logical, is to hard wire the laptop directly to the modem with the ethernet cable. Download something for several minutes that you know you can replicate 'exactly' later for confirmation -- time the download to a certain point to minutes and seconds. Try to be accurate, both with the watch and the point you start and stop the download.

Next take the laptop somewhere else, a so called 'internet cafe' with wireless, and repeat what you did at home. Hopefully it is Comcast and hopefully they are using the same download speeds at your home plus where you go -- but all you are trying to prove is that there is a big difference in 'downloading the identical portion of a segment of something that you just did at home'. Do this and then compare results.
--------------------
First, before doing anything, if you did not unplug the modem cables as I sugested, do that. Then do the download at home and repeat it somewhere else. At the so called 'Internet cafe' if you get what you call normal or faster than normal speeds, then your problem is Comcast (could still be the modem for some weird reason) but Comcast can come to your residence and check the speeds coming in, going out, etc. with out ever touching your in house cable. Obviously, they can get right up at your computer and test 'up and down speeds also'.
--------------------
I should mention this about coax cable. The internet coax cable that comes into your house, either above ground or below ground is a round cable with a shield and a single center wire -- the center wire is very precisely centered within the "stiff" (styrofoam) filled cable, and I am sure you have seen the outer wrap of aluminin foil -like- material or wire mesh around the outside of the cable. This outer metallic wrap is "100 % symetrical around the center wire" and must remain so thruout its entire length". Shielding - and the performance of the center conductor - is totally dependant of the 'shielding being symetrical everywhere around the center conductor'. So if someones 'foot or hammer' has smashed (flattened) the cable at some point, somewhere, then performance is degraded. This description is not partially true, it is 100 % true. A bad cable on the Comcast side of things is a possibility.
-------------------
So by going to an Internet Cafe or someone elses house where they have the same Comcast service with your laptop and getting perfect results on the download or lets say 2X or 3X better download speed tells you Comcast needs to come say Hello to you and fix their stuff.

Last point, I think you indicated earlier that you live in an apartment; if so that opens up a world of possibilities about the service inside your building and how the Comcast equipment prevents someone else's internet service from 'screwing up' yours.

Summary: Use the laptop to prove or disprove download speeds from your living space and the same type comcast service from a different location.
------------------
Now another comment comes to mind. At our house (always been the case), a buried cable comes from a cable box on the street, maybe several houses away. At my house where the cable comes in, a coax cable device called a 'splitter' is used where one incoming cable is 'split' into two cables. But each time you split the cable, you lose signal strength - the comcast signal gets weaker, then weaker, etc. until at some point you have trouble getting data.

Let us take the last sentence a step further -- if you are in a apartment complex where one comcast incoming cable serves many users, then comcast 'likely' provides 'amplifiers' at multiple points to 'amplify and regain lost signal strength because the signal has to be divided so many times'. -- This is my explanation of how your incoming cable service is dealt with by Comcast. I may be incorrect in my explanation about something, but Comcast is doing the 'equivalent of what I say, somehow'. -- You can ask Comcast how they split their cable up to different apartments and maintain signal strength. ( I assume low signal strength ultimately translates to slow downloads or no downloads )

One more effort to summarize: You have a new laptop. You can use the laptop to download from your home (apt) and also from another site. Download EXACTLY the same data from the same source but at your home location and then somewhere else. Measure the download time. Even tho you have a new laptop, it will not take in a download as fast as your desktop computer -- you have to factor that in -- but by doing the same data download from yours and another location, and carefully measuring the download time means it does not matter that you are using a slower laptop.

Sorry for the lengthy explanation. It is still a simple problem. Because you do live in an Apartment (I assume) puts an entirely different light on 'possibilities' until you rule it all out, and, blame the new build once more. The Comcast reps (by phone ) and at your residence should be able to tell you what their specs are for delivered speed. They can measure it coming into your complex, at your building, in your or anyone elses, apartment. They have 'levels' of service and tolerance + or - that they have to abide by.

Ask me any questions that come to mind as you read this -- better explanation, etc. -- but right now, I think you have to prove that you have the correct speed coming into your apartment that you are paying for.

Another point, the easiest thing for you to do is simply have Comcast come out and measure your incoming speed (or whatever their term is for it), and tell you whether or not it meets their specification. You can do all the above that I am talking about afterwards if necessary.

[Khapheen]

Can't thank you enough for all the time and attention lately zburns. I'm going to try unplugging it all once more -- will do 15 mins this time, just to be sure -- and then working up your suggestions/advice from there. Thanks!

[zburns]

Matt -- I just finished my last edit on the long post. I assume you live in an apartment -- that sort of puts a different light on the whole situation until you disprove a problem with Comcast -- but do go ahead with the 'unplugging' test. If you call Comcast again, I am not sure they can measure your signal strength over the phone but ask them that. Ask them if a service rep has to come to your apartment with a meter that will tell him download speed and signal strength -- is that the only way for you to know that you are getting correct speed and signal strength. My long speech above tells you how to spend some time and prove / disprove whether it is your problem or Comcast.

[Khapheen]

I do live in an apartment. I'll try the unplugging, go out to test the laptop elsewhere, and then get in touch with Comcast for a test. Thanks!

[Khapheen]

I just left my modem and router cold for about 20 mins, am booting them up now.

For the sake of comparison, realized that I had other connections I could try without much hassle. First, plugged a Verizon USB into the desktop and got 2.1/.36 on speedtest.

Then, I tried a wireless system we have here in the apt. complex (which I don't usually use because it's slow and unreliable. For that, I got 2.65/.30

Not sure if that actually helps in any way, but I think I'm going to try those on the laptop as well.

[zburns]

Modem, in particular, and I guess the router should have ethernet and power "un plugged". Hard wire with ethernet cable laptop to modem and bypass router and wireless 100% -- a test on Comcast download speed to your apt..

[zburns]

How fast his your Verizon down/up supposed to be? Do you have their new so called 4G network? Their spec says 5 to 12 for 4G; and 0.6 to 1.2 for 3G. -- this would be download. You need to ask Comcast what your download speed is for your price category.

[Khapheen]

I put this aside for a couple of days (had some actual work to catch up on), but I'm not actually sure what sort of speed I should be getting from VZ. I'll find out. In the meantime, am trying to setup an appt to have someone from Comcast come check it out.

[Khapheen]

Hi guys,

I just thought I would stop back in and let you all know that things worked out, in case my experience helps someone else down the road.

After speaking with Comcast customer service, I got the impression that trying a new modem and/or wireless router probably wouldn't be a terrible idea. I know that replacing equipment isn't the most cost-efficient method of troubleshooting, but I've been a bit pinched for time lately (which is why I didn't get around to fixing this a lot sooner), and newer models of my equipment were available on Amazon.com for about $100. To me, that seemed like a pretty small price to pay to have the problem fixed, if possible.

In any case, after installing both and hooking them up, I immediately ran a speed test and got a score of over 30, from my four-month-old laptop which I had previously assumed had poor wireless capabilities. The speed for my desktop, which is across the apartment and through a couple walls, wasn't as high, but still over 15 which is more than decent for what I need.

So, I guess there isn't a whole lot that I've learned from this, except that I replaced the modem and things got faster right away. One interesting thing to note, however, is that the two "old" computers I had seemed to be running adequately with the original wireless setup, while my two new machines (both using quad core processors and Windows 7) couldn't seem to work with that at all. Not sure if there's anything to read into that or not, but thought I would mention it in case someone else runs into a similar problem down the road.

Otherwise, just wanted to thank everyone once again for all the help. It's great having the new quad core system up and running, and it's doing wonders for my productivity.

[zburns]

Hi Matt, Congradulations on things working out ok! Glad things are a lot better. If you do not mind, I am still curious about a couple of points. On Ricky's speed test on the first page, his speed was 23.98 mb/s.

Is your speed test the same as his? What is the 'suffix' after your numbers 30 and 15. Is it also mb/s?

You are paying Comcast for a certain download speed. I think 12 mb/sec is their minimum download speed. But Comcast can certainly tell you the actual speed.

I mention it because it is sort of a loose end. I would also think both computers should be close to the same or the same unless something is inhibiting the download speed. Or there is something I am just missing! Sorry, but my curiosity will not let it go. All along, your system(s) worked, just at a slow speed.

Anyway, it is great that things are better.

[Khapheen]

Hi zburns,

yes, mine was also in mb/s, from the same site.

The speed test that registered a 30, from my laptop, was just sitting a few feet away. My desktop is about 25 feet or so away, through a couple of walls, and "behind" the computer, relative to the router. I'm assuming that's why it's getting slower speeds. That's only a guess, though.

[zburns]

Hi Matt,

Couple of things. (1) As I see it, both computer speeds should be the same or close, assuming the desktop is not impeding the download speed by not accepting the signal. (2) Your antenna array looks like a 'directional array'; there could be several reasons for it being directional. Some having to do with your computer transmitting (uploading) and some reasons regards receiving (download).

I suggest you turn the computer case so that the antenna is line of sight to the router (forget the walls) (Imagine a capital T, the vertical stem of the T is the "direct line of sight". The top crossbar of the T is the back of the computer case. You want the line of sight as "perpendicular to the back of the case as you can make it -- or visualize it since there are walls -- not perfect, just do the best you can.

See if that improves things.

Give me a post back with the manufacturer and model number of the new router. I will try to get a download of the manual from the mfgs website, and look for 'weird antenna problems'.

I can say more, but it would be theory and supposition. Best I get up to speed on the details of the router, so I can be more precise. Since you are running at a resonable speed, there is no rush -- and that helps too.

[Khapheen]

I'll try turning the computer around and seeing what happens. As for the router, it's a D Link DIR-655. Thanks!