New Build Question... With a Twist

[Khapheen]

Hi everyone,

So I seem to have fried the mobo on my first build (after a few years), and I'm thinking about doing an upgrade from my current setup: AMD 3.0 duo, 4MB RAM, XP, and an ASUS mobo (can't find the model # right now, but it was the one Rob recommended some time back).

Keeping my soundcard, HD, PSU, & monitor, but am thinking about a new processor, mobo, video card, and some faster Ram (8gb to go with Windows 7).

I like the suggestions on the main page, but here's the catch: I'm thinking about ordering the parts from Amazon tomorrow (Thurs) so I can get them on Fri (and spend Sat morning putting it together -- would like to catch up on some work this weekend, but my laptop doesn't handle InDesign or Photoshop very well) without much shipping expense. So, I'm trying to find compatible parts that are in stock and elgible for Prime Shipping on Amazon. It looks like the motherboard and video card Rob recommends are out of stock.

I'm hoping to keep it all in the $7-800 range, won't use the machine for much gaming (although I do occasional photoshop and graphic layouts, Adobe CS, etc.), and my biggest requirement is a quad core with 8MB L2 Cache, since the voice recognition software runs a lot more smoothly that way.

Any suggestions?

Thanks as always for the great help I've gotten here...

[Khapheen]

Took some time looking back through the forums this morning, and am now wondering if I'm not going overkill. I'd love to have more performance, but I was getting by on an AMD Dual core system with 1 MB of L2 Cache, not to mention a 256mb video card, so maybe I should try to save a couple hundred dollars and put it elsewhere in my business.

Any suggestions on an i5 vs. a quad core AMD? I've read elsewhere that Dragon (the voice-to-text software I use pretty extensively) works better with Intel chips, but again, I've been using an AMD and getting by.

Anyhow, I'm thinking now that maybe I can get away with upgrading the mobo, CPU, RAM, & vid card in the $500 range. All will be going into an Antec 300 case, 750w Corsair PSU, Creative Fatality Sound Card, and 500gb / 7200 Seagate HD.

Still open to specific suggestions if anyone has any. Thanks!

[zburns]

Hey Matt, Your version of Dragon will matter regards any 'speed up' occuring by using a Quad. I looked to see if Dragon 10 supported multiple threads but I could not find anything. Regardless, your instructions will tell you whether you have a single thread or multiple thread capability. Dragon 11 does support multiple threads, automatically (not sure what that means either -- does it mean 4 threads or 4 logical and 4 virtual (8 useful threads total).
EDIT--If you have a single thread Dragon version, there may be no mention of single or multiple threads since at the time of writing or release time (DRAGON 10 first version), the use of the wording 'multiple threads' was not part of 'computer lingo'. END OF EDIT.

Your old mobo may be Asus M2N32-SLIDeluxe (Rob's choice, 2007 into 2009, I think). If the model is not on the board itself, there will be some identifying number. Maybe Asus could ship you a repaired board in exchange for a nominal price -- if you are really satisfied with what you have.

State of the Art is the new Sandy Bridge but it is on hold until March or April and that probably does not work for you.

I have no experience with Dragon, just reading specs -- but it really sounds like its' an effective time saver!

[Khapheen]

Hi zburns,

Thanks as always for the quick feedback. Since most of my work is writing, I *love* Dragon -- speeds up my productivity by a factor of 3 or 4. The more (better/faster) processing and RAM I have, the faster and more accurate it gets. I have version 10 at the moment, and will probably upgrade eventually but the reviews are mixed on whether it's worth it to go to 11.

I was pretty satisfied, but have been thinking about an upgrade lately anyway, so it's no big deal.

Here's what I'm thinking at the moment:

CPU - Phenom II X4 965 Black AM3 3.4Ghz 512KB 45NM 125W 4000MHZ
http://www.amazon.com/Phenom-Black-3-4Ghz-512KB-4000MHZ/dp/B002SRQ214/

Mobo - ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 - AM3 - AMD 890GX - DDR3 - USB 3.0 SATA 6 Gb/s - ATX Motherboard
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-M4A89GTD-PRO-USB3-Motherboard/dp/B003964KK8/

RAM (8 GB) - CORSAIR XMS3 DHX 4GB ( 2 X 2GB ) PC3-10666 1333MHz 240-pin DDR3 CL9 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit - TW3X4G1333C9DHX
http://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-PC3-10666-1333MHz-240-pin-Channel/dp/B0014BOQ54/

*although I'm not as sure about this one...

VID - EVGA GeForce GTS450 FPB 1 GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0 Graphics Card 01G-P3-1450-TR
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-PCI-Express-Graphics-01G-P3-1450-TR/dp/B0041RRNBM/

I'll readily confess that I don't really understand vid cards all that well, though.

Any thoughts on this setup. Good value, or better to wait for i5's to be in stock, or the new series to come out. I'm anxious to put it together (for fun, and for some work projects), but it's not the end of the world if I wait a few more days.

Also, and this might be a stupid question, but I did occasionally have problems with the Internet on my old machine -- specifically that VOIP calls would hang or drop. Don't know if that had to do with the mobo, but anyone know how I'd avoid that?

And finally, any idea if I should want/need a different cooler for this CPU? It's amazing what you forget when you're away for a while...

[zburns]

VOIP telephony is generally a service of your internet provider and your computer has nothing to do with it. I happen to use Majic Jack; cost me $ 44.00 initially, now nothing per month; one year later, $ 19.95. Essentially it is free; we have a mixture of old telephone handsets, so some of the problems we experience may be due to old handsets. My computer has to be on for Majic Jack to work; and that is something I do not like; the Majic Jack operating small screen, about 3 x 4 inches, just pops up on my visual field at intervals and I cannot control it -- annoying but tolerable. No dropped calls or interference with calls per se. However, when someone calls in to us with a mobile phone, sometimes or all the time (cannot tell), we really get an unintelligible incoming conversation -- totally unsatisfactory.

Guessing at what this is all about goes something like this. All internet data transmission is in packets or 'bursts' of data; situations where the data stream cannot be unbroken or must be held to microscopically short intervals must be controlled by interactive software to get continous VOIP for phone conversations. (What I just said was that it is ok to interupt my telephone conversation but keep it to increments of 'microseconds' or a 'millisecond or two' -- ok to interupt but the 'interrupt period' must be short enough so the receiving caller cannot distinguish an interrupted stream of words from a non interrupted stream.

So if you are dropping VOIP calls, and your phone system does not go thru your computer, your question should go to your IP provider. If like my system it does go thru my computer to some degree, then it is on me or my computer (the problem). Another possibility is the relative quality of your IP provider -- and this is a guess. We have dealt with three IP providers since about 2001. Roadrunner in North Carolina and Charter and Comcast in Georgia -- extremely large providers in all cases. If you are dealing with (by comparison) very small IP providers, then maybe their access to a high quality VOIP network is not good for reasons out of their control -- like access to large interstate servers as compared to a smaller server network.

If you are droping calls and your phones do not go thru your computer, call your IP provider and ask them why they think you are dropping calls - but go one or two levels up to supervisors or get switched over to their tech department -- ultimately I have always been able to get to someone with the knowledge at the IP providers.

[Khapheen]

Thanks! I've got to say: you know a lot about a lot.

See any problems with that build? Or with me substituting this RAM to save money:

Corsair TW3X4G1333C9A XMS3 4 GB Memory Kit fro PC3-10666 1333mhz 240-pin Dual Channel DDR3

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-TW3X4G1333C9A-PC3-10666-1333mhz-240-pin/dp/B002D11C6U/

[zburns]

I had written this post separate than the VOIP post and just saw your new one above! Anyhow, here is mine. These are just suggestions. Dragon 11 does multiple threads automatically; know that because I just googled D 11 specifically for that; could never get a comment on D 10, so I assume it does not. If I have to do a lot of reports and typing, I would definitely use it.

Anything you buy right now that is not Sandy Bridge related is not the latest and greatest. From a plan to replace on a periodic basis, it makes sense to get Sandy Bridge once the present problem is dealt with -- this is why I suggested you buy a replacement mobo or ask Asus if they have any repaired or even new M2N32-SLIDeluxe mobos (if that is your board), or send yours back for repair.

Figuring out the new technology, how to deal with it and keep up with it is, to me, a hard thing to do. To me it appears obvious that I should upgrade big time later this year to Sandy Bridge -- the reason being to get the experience of the newer technology as a building block to what comes after that. There will come a point where Intel and AMD cannot shrink the size any longer. Invidia seems to have different ideas about processing. Technology will advance, period.

My recommendation is to wait out Sandy Bridge. It should be a lot faster than what you are proposing. Upgrading your Dragon 10 to a maximum multi thread system should show you some speed difference. Ricky Tick should comment on your graphics card choice.

EDIT: You could always call Asus about your present board and ask about the possibility of sending it in for repair, tell them you suspect a static discharge failure on the power on input to the mobo; maybe they have a fixed price for repair or maybe they just have a stock of 'repaired boards' -- but they have to have some program of repairing or otherwise servicing someone like yourself who has a failed Asus board not too many years old; if they do not have such a program, how to they please and get repeat customers? Also, you would think repair would be a quick turn-a-round for existing customers?

It will take me a couple of hours to look at your proposed new components!

[Khapheen]

Thanks again zburns, and sorry for being so over-anxious today. I know what you mean; it's hard for me to know where to draw the line. I guess I just figured that if I was going to replace the mobo, I might as well make it all a bit faster/stronger for a couple hundred extra dollars. More than anything, I'm just nervous I'll get part (and especially RAM), that aren't compatible.

Anyhow, I'm thinking I'll probably go with these, with the knowledge that I'll most likely upgrade again to Sandy Bridge next year.

[RickyTick]

Just wanted to second what Z was saying about VOIP. I've been using Vonage for about 6 years and have NEVER EVER had one single problem. If you're having issues, it's with your ISP, or a problem with the router. Contact your ISP and have them check your connection for packet loss.

[zburns]

Matt:

Video card looks ok. It is a PCIe 2.0x16 which means it is fast. I do not do gaming, hence, I pay little attention to individual video cards; however, this one has good reviews, see Guru of 3D reviews

On the Asus motherboard choice there seemed to be one troubling aspect. I went to Newegg to look at specs. If you google the Asus model number, one of listings will be Newegg. You get three choices on the full Newegg page, Overview, Details (Specifications) and Feedback. Neither Details or Feedback work so 'I got nothing'. The importance of Details is the 2.0 x 16 speed rating (not sure that is the best name 'speed rating'). Importance of Feedback is that you get to see recent sales and new owners rating. I see this sometimes on Newegg -- the Details and Feedback pages not opening and I always wonder why! What is being hidden?

On the other hand the Amazon Specs are there, all ok, and there are three 'five star ratings' so it seems to be perfectly ok and a good price.

CPU fits mobo in all respects.

You should be ok on it all!

[zburns]

Another comment on VOIP. If your system goes thru your computer, as I said and also, Ricky, the computer or a router could be at fault or your ISP provider.

However, if your ISP provider is providing the VOIP service, let us say the cable comes into your garage and then up thruout your house and at some point your computer and the coax cable 'get together'. This is all some distance from the garage, lets say.

The installation for telephone by the ISP provider will probably be in the garage in the form of a small chassis about 5 x 6 inches, maybe 2 inches thick; the cable goes thru this box on the way to going thru your house -- something like this -- point is it has nothing to do with the computer. Therefore, dropped calls have something to do with the ISP provider.

I am under the impression that VOIP means Voice Over Internet Protocol. Your TV is on this same cable generally and the phone service. To me VOIP is the 'technique' or the name for the 'technology used' and does not mean that a computer in the house or office is involved. Just the Internet Provider is involved. Repeating myself, if your phone system runs thru your computer or is installed on the computer side of a router, then the computer or Router is involved.

[Khapheen]

I've been using Vonage software through a wireless connection to my desktop. Not sure why, just that calls were hanging, cutting out, etc., every now and then.

Re: the mobo, it seems like people have been having problems with the front USB connections. Amazing how hard it is to pick the right mobo -- seems like every one of them has a stack of good reviews, along with a few people screaming that it's cr*p.

[zburns]

Try Vonage w/o using wireless. Bet the problem stops. Your comment on the mobo; you are making reference to the one you were going to order thru Amazon? Can you provide a link to the bad reviews, I would like to see the description of the problem.

[RickyTick]

Does your computer have to be on for your phone to work? Mine doesn't go through my computer at all, and operates totally independent of the pc.

[Khapheen]

My Vonage is just software, so I run it through my headset that I used while I'm working (a nice Sennheiser noise-cancelling setup that I use for dictating drafts). I've never actually used it through a telephone, since I had "V phones" (which are the little USB things you plug into your computer) for years before that.

Re: the mobo, I was looking at the reviews on Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131631

Lots of good reviews, but also lots of people saying that there are problems with the front USB connections.

I missed my deadline to order it all from Amazon yesterday, anyway (ran into a time-consuming client problem), so I'll either have to drive down to MicroCenter tomorrow and find what I need or wait until next week.

[zburns]

Your headphones are the wireless aspect of Vonage?

[Khapheen]

No, the headset is plugged into the Soundblaster card, the Vonage is through "Vonage Companion," which I just open like a normal desktop program.

[RickyTick]

This might be a better option. All those negative remarks about front usb ports are troubling.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131654

[zburns]

When you look at the Newegg reviews, they are mostly five star and some four star. About page 4 of the reviews they are mostly five star. I saw some comments reference to Newegg Open Box purchases; I would never accept a motherboard other than in a factory sealed box, period 10,000 times!! I am a huge believer in the seriousness of static damage to boards in self built computers. Knowing a lot about the issue personally and reading about the steps 'industry' in general takes to prevent static damage in the manufacturing of boards with very high content chips leads me to only one conclusion, and, that is -- believe it. The phenomena (if you call it that) within INDUSTRY is well known and documented -- the problem most 'interested folks have in the subject' is that it is generally not seen and invisible. Worse, static can cause problems down the road by 'weakening' the internal composition of solid state chips (ie: breaking down internal insulation between transistors which leads to 'shorting of transistors' down the road -- therefore, invisible damage at the time 'the static discharge occured').

I would point out that the Intel P67 problem is a self inflicted Intel problem because of design but it mimics the way 'delayed static discharge damages components' -- excessive leakage currents that ultimately cause the current between microcomponents to exceed normal and they fail, quickly or eventually.

Would also point out that as the 'nanometer footprint' of cpus and 'like' chips keeps decreasing, the greater the susceptability to 'ESD', Electrostatic Discharge. As the chips footprint gets smaller, it gets a lot easier to damage the chip.

As to this particular board, I see nothing in the reviews that are seriously negative; just do not buy open box under any circumstances.