Any Ideas -- Starting Without Starting

[Khapheen]

Hi Guys,

Thought I'd drop by the forum and see if I could get some advice for a strange problem:

Was working on my PC last night and reached down to get something. Brushed the power button (but don't think it was hard enough to even tap it in fully). The computer shut down as if I'd turned it off, which was annoying but no big deal.

When I turned it back on, though, the fan started, CD light came on, etc., but no blinking for the processor and the screen still showed "no input" and went to sleep. I've tried rebooting it several times, unplugging the power supply and trying again, all to no avail -- it just starts like it's in the middle of something, but doesn't seem to be "doing" anything. It's like it's stuck.

Any ideas/suggestions?

All help is greatly appreciated, as always. Thanks!

-Matt

[Piginapoke]

I have some really weird problems with my PC to. Since you were working on it I would double check all your work, any loose connections, installs or anything like that. Also check for loose wires on power button. I believe your power button is connected with other wires on a harness which goes to Motherboard. I forgot the name of it, but it should be in your motherboard manual or a repair manual if you have one. Check those wires. I'm no expert, but you never know about loose connections and hardware.

[Khapheen]

I've been wondering if it's possible that the power or reset is somehow "stuck," since pressing either of those does nothing (have to turn it off with the switch in the back).

I'll give that a shot. Otherwise, I don't know what else to do -- it's worked perfectly for ages, but can't get it to even boot up now.

[zburns]

Matt, I hope you are up and running by now and the cause was a simple one. Here is a Tom's Hardware link that is relevant: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/271300-28-front-panel-static-discharge-problems

I have had two separate experiences with weird non-boot issues and actual instant shut down. Here is a short set of comments on what I have experience recently regards shut down: Twice in the last several months, I have knocked my Super PC off the air by unplugging or plugging in my printer USB plug into the front panel USB connector on my Antec Sonata III case. In both cases the cause was static discharge from me to the metal portion of either the female USB port on the front panel or the metal portion of the male USP plug as it was inserted into the front panel USB port. In both cases the static on my body came from me "rising up out of my chair". Just for the heck of it, I tried it again this morning; weather about 35 degrees outside and raining. My chair is older but typical secretaries type office chair -- metal frame, separate seat and pivotable back rest. Seat and back rest covered in 'polyester' fabric ( I presume), my clothes a sweatshirp and sweatpants (again a polyester, not pure cotton). Shoes are boots with rubber soles. Carpet on floor.

Your case button for turn on pushes on a switch closure that probably has two wires coming off it and goes to the same place on your mobo as it does all ATX mobos. Momentarily pushing the button triggers a transistor in an IC to make the PSU become fully operational instead of just a 'standby' mode (unless your on-off switch on the back of the case is turned off, the computer PSU and mobo is always in this stand by mode). The case front on-off button should be plastic, not metal. Whether the manufacturers have fully taken into account the possibility of a static path for discharge thru the on-off button, I have no way of knowing. But the wires from this front button do lead to an electronic circuit that turns on the 'sleeping mobo and PSU'.

The mobo manufacturers should already have a solution to this via using a opitical electronic switch between the front panel button the mobo sensitive electronics, wherein, a pulse of light allows a physical short distance to exist to block a electrical static discharge. If there is not protection from the front turn on button to the mobo against static discharge, then it is possible to have a damaged component (s) on the mobo. I should also, point out that if an optical isolator switch is use, then the input side of the opto isolator is vulnerble to a static pulse -- but if this were the case, then hopefully the design would have been tested to insure that the only failure was the opto isolator. (static discharges can be a large number voltage wise; you do see numbers as high as 10,000 volts, maybe higher in articles.)

About a good year ago, I would get situations where I did everything in a normal manner, but my computer would start and I would get a couple of flash screen and then it stops without really entering the boot process. But there was a pattern to it that was always consistent in that it would repeat itself in a more or less identical pattern. When it occured but after a period of 15 minutes to 30 minutes, it would restart without a problem. The computer was two years old by now and I had never blown the dust out of it. I finally took it apart, using static control, so that I could get to every component and used compressed air to blow out all dust. Computer fan had a lot of dust on it and only one other place had a lot of dust -- the first stick of ram lined up directly against the air flow coming from the cpu Zalman fan. That first stick of RAM heavily covered in dust. Blew the dust off reassembled, same problem. I had put the RAM back exactly as it came out. I then removed the first two sticks and moved the back two sticks to the slots closest to the cpu. Everything worked fine after that. No more 20 or 30 minute delays.

I figured one stick of RAM had permanent circuit change or damage due to 'electrical changes' to the RAM due to the high conductivity of the dust laying along the PCI connector gold pins.

Hopefully, after a period of time your computer came back on, and the problem is more like the RAM problem I experienced rather than a damaging static discharge type probem.

[Piginapoke]

Check your Bios settings. There are some settings for booting up. Under power settings in BIOS there are several options like power on by mouse or keyboard. I actually use to use these settings for powering up. If you can't power up by the Power Button, try going into BIOS and using one of these settings. It won't hurt. If it doesn't work then you can go back to your regular power settings. I don't know if this would help either, but if all else fails try resetting your BIOS with the jumper, it is located by the battery if using the M2N-SLI Deluxe Motherboard wireless. Also take your battery out, let it set for a while then reinstall. Then do your jumper for BIOS. That is only as a last resort. That wouldn't have anything to do with the power button itself. You can also try taking out your RAM disconnecting all Hardware from Motherboard and removing battery. For some reason my PC use to be bad about this. Not the power up mode, but if you some how take out the Hardware and kind of rejuvenate it, it sometimes knocks the life back into it. But first check your BIOS and change the power up settings and see what happens. You can also call Antec for assistance or maybe ASUS if your motherboard is still under warranty.

[Khapheen]

I wasn't actually getting it up to the point where I could even get into BIOS, it was just "running" with no response.

On a hunch, I went down to Micro Center today and picked up a new case -- an Antec 300, just like before. Have moved all the components over (kind of a pain), hooked them back together, etc... and now the green mobo light comes up, but when I try to start it, it sometimes flickers (the fan) for just a moment, but then nothing. Green mobo power light stays on.

I'm thinking I must have forgotten to add power to something, but can't find what. So, that's what I'm stuck on at the moment...

[RickyTick]

Kapheen, what are your system specs? I'm hoping it's something simple.

[Khapheen]

I tried switching cases today, and finally got it working again (I had forgotten to put in the brass screws first...) but once it started up, same thing: running, but absolutely nothing past that, no screen, nothing.

I'll have to look up my system specs later (about to have dinner), but I know it has:

AMD Dual 3.0
ASUS m2n32 sli deluxe
windows xp
dell monitor
xfatality sound card
evga geforce 4600 card (I think)

I'm working on an HD enclosure right now to see if I can get some writing/publishing projects I was working off from the old HD for the short term (have a laptop I can work on for a week or so) and then thinking about doing an upgrade if I can't figure it out.

Thanks for all the help so far, I'll be sure to check in later and see if I can provide more info. Thanks!

-Matt

[zburns]

I have the same cpu and mobo. If you have not done it yet, try running on one stick of RAM in the closest slot to the cpu. Try all 2 or 4 sticks of RAM one stick at a time.

[Khapheen]

Hi Zburns,

Don't know how I missed your first note in the stack -- thanks for that!

I'm going to try that with the RAM, although what you described (with the printer in the front USB) was eerily similar to what happened in my case. I had just moved the printer USB to the front a day before, and I did knock it out by sitting up. So maybe it's the same deal...

I'm going to try moving the memory stick, though, and see where that gets me.

Big thanks again to everyone who has taken time to think about this. I appreciate it. If nothing else, it gave me an excuse to take everything apart, clean it thoroughly with air, and remind myself how it's all connected. Feel confident I'll live if I have to make some replacements, and am even considering going to a quad core if I can't work out the mobo issue.

[zburns]

You should try one memory stick at a time ( I assume you have more than one!) The fact that you have a black screen , assuming you do not get the single POST beep, means your mobo is probably not functioning, however, if your memory was not functioning, your cpu would not function (I think).

Based on the similarity to my 'static discharge' with the printer USB plug and subsequent shutdown, I think the following is possible. Assuming you were sitting in a chair, the process of 'reaching down and swiping your hand past the on-button' involved moving your body with respect to your chair, this generated a static charge and as your hand went past the on-button, the charge generated an arc from your hand (finger) to one of the wires of the on-button. (EDIT-- This wire goes directly to a transitor (s) circuit that, working correctly, brings the mobo and psu 'out of sleep mode'.) From that point on there is no way to tell what went wrong without a schematic of the mobo and some knowledge of the circuit and the associated chips installed on the mobo.

Assuming the above is correct, there is a difference in what happened to your mobo and the 'touching the USB plug' problem I had (evidently you also). The USB plug has an insulated plastic cover or wrap around; about 1/2 inch of metal is exposed at the end of the USB plug, touching this metal end (very easy to do) when inserting it into the female receptacle causes the charge to transfer instantly to the metal female front panel connector. This 'metal female connector' I refer to is part of the 'ground part' of the 'complete computer circuitry'. It winds its way thruout all the circuits in one continous path but never connects back on itself. Whenever you make a voltage measurement on the computer boards, that measurement is almost always a probe on 'a particular voltage point' back to a 'ground point'.

It is one thing to have a static charge 'hit' the grounding circuit of the boards; it is altogether much more devastating to have the static charge hit the input of a microscopic transistor in a chip.

[Khapheen]

Tried using just one memory stick (and then the other), but no change. Then got sidetracked for a couple of days with work stuff.

Am thinking now that I might go ahead with an upgrade. Will start a new post in a week or two when I'm ready to start ordering parts, and will look for some feedback then.

Thanks again for all the help!

-Matt