Help me spend my money!!!!

[Gr1ff1n1]

Okay, Tax season is coming and I'm getting ready to settle a lawsuit for a motor vehicle accident. That said, I am going to build a dream machine and budget isn't much of a worry. Granted, I don't want to just go stupid crazy but I'd certainly like to build myself a high-end system to accomplish the following: I have just built an entertainment center and my wife and I both do most of our work on our laptops. I want to build a unit for my entertainment center. It will be my Home Theater system/Gaming machine/ possibly run a small server off of it for sharing media to family members and whatnot. Adobe CS5 Master Collection will be installed on this system as well and it will be used quite often for several applications. I will be running my HDTV as the monitor and will probably upgrade my set to a 3D unit shortly after the rig is built.

So far, after many hours of studying parts, I've come up with some likes and they are as follows:

Motherboard
EVGA 141-GT-E770-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188069

or

ASUS Rampage III Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131642

CPU
Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition Gulftown 3.33GHz 6 x 256KB L2 Cache 12MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223

GPU
2X EVGA 015-P3-1482-AR GeForce GTX 480 (Fermi) SuperClocked 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130551

I want a quiet system and since it will be in a cabinet I plan on liquid cooling. The cabinet is vented but not quite enough to run straight air. I have no clue about sound cards and I think I'm going to run into a problem running what I'd like due to my enclosure. I measured the opening for the tower earlier and it came in right over 20.5" tall which limits me to a mid-size tower. I have plenty of depth and width to the space but I have no idea what direction to go with a case. From my understanding, there aren't a lot of case options for my mobo choice either.

I'll run SSDs for storage and haven't chosen the RAM yet but I shouldn't have any problems coming up with choices for these parts. I haven't chosen what type of liquid cooling system I'd like to use due to case options.

Any help or suggestions with my direction would be greatly appreciated. I hope I've given you guys an idea of where I want to go with this thing so maybe I can spark some ideas and we'll just build this thing together. I'd like to overclock it as well ofc which is another reason liquid cooling was at the top of my list.

Thanks in advance for your time and suggestions!!!

[Deneb]

Sorry to hear that you were in a motor vehicle accident. Congratulations on having some extra money. I would strongly recommend against spending an exorbitant amount of money on any one computer build. Especially now with the Sandy Bridge line of CPUs coming within 90 days.

For myself what I am doing is building a new complete system this month. It will have a large case and a powerful power supply. Then I will take my existing system, which isn’t bad, and use it for Ubuntu. Then in a year or two I will build a whole new system. After that, I’ll just upgrade whichever of the two boxes is older every 2 to 3 years.

The Gulftown CPU with six cores at $1000 is a total complete waste of money. Generally the only time you can utilize all six cores if you’re doing video processing. Even then one could make the argument that it would be better to have two separate systems with four cores each doing video processing. The ASUS Rampage III Extreme is way too expensive and it looks like it will be hard to get the big CPU cooler on it. The EVGA 141-GT-E770-A1 LGA is even more crowded.

The video card looks like a nice card but really, $500 for a video card? I think you would make more sense to do something like get a new video card in the range of $200-$300 every 18 months and sell the old card on eBay while it still has some good value.

EVGA 015-P3-1482-AR GeForce GTX 480 (Fermi) SuperClocked 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP $500.00
Chipset Manufacturer NVIDIA
GPU GeForce GTX 480 (Fermi)
Core Clock 725MHz
Shader Clock 1450MHz
Stream Processors 480 Processor Cores
Effective Memory Clock 3800MHz
Memory Size 1536MB
Memory Interface 384-bit
Memory Type GDDR5

Check out the MSI R5670 CYCLONE 1G Radeon HD 5670. This card peeks out at 64 W at full load in the fan should be quite quiet.

MSI R5670 CYCLONE 1G Radeon HD 5670 1GB PCI Express 2.1 x16 Video Card $114.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127489

Model R5670 CYCLONE 1G
GPU ATI Radeon HD 5770
PCI Express x16 2.1
Memory Interface 128bit
Stream Processors 400 Stream Processing Units
DirectX DirectX 11
Memory Type GDDR5
Memory Size(MB) 1024
Memory Interface 128bit
Core Clock Speed(MHz) 775
Memory Clock Speed(MHz) 4040
DVI Output 1
D-SUB Output 1(optional, via DVI to D-Sub adaptor)
Display Ouput(Max Resolution) 3x 2560x1600
RAMDACs 400
DirectX Version Support 11
OpenGL Version Support 3.2
CrossFire Support Y
Card Dimension (mm) 168x112x36 (6.614 X 4.409 X 1.4172 in)
Weight 388g
40 nm Process Technology
• Advanced GDDR5 Memory Technology
• 2nd Generation TeraScale Engine
• Microsoft Windows 7 support
• ATI CrossFireX™ Technology
• Enhanced Anisotropic Filtering
• Accelerated Video Transcoding
• HDMI 1.3 Support
• Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio Support
• ATI PowerPlay™ Technology Enhanced Support for GDDR5 memory
• ATI Avivo™ Technology Enhanced Unified Video Decoder 2 (UVD 2)
400 Watt or greater power supply recommended

http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=prodvgaspec&maincat_no=130&cat2_no=137&cat3_no=&prod_no=1982#menu

I don’t care for SSD drives for four reasons. First, they’re not as reliable as hard drives yet. Secondly they cost too much. Third, it adds complexity were there doesn’t need to be any. Lastly having a faster drive just makes programs boot up quicker. It does little for overall computer performance. Especially with Windows 7 64-bit because Windows uses extra RAM to cache the hard drive. A standard 1 TB hard drive has 32 MB of cache RAM in it to begin with. Then if you go with a Bloomfield I7 CPU which is three memory channels and 4 GB RAM modules you’ll end up with 12 GB of RAM. Probably eight of which will be available most of the time for caching hard drive. Beyond that you might consider partitioning a hard drive into several pieces. For example one partition called large files for things like movies and ISO images. One partition for data files like Word processing documents and spreadsheets. One partition for music files and so on. Have a partition for the Windows operating system where you don’t put other data on that partition. That way you should be able to keep the use on the Windows partition under 30 GB.

I’m going to throw together a list of parts for a generic dream system and put in another post. Before I can give to many more recommendations for your specific situation let me ask are you building this system primarily as a game box or as a media Center box. If it’s going to be a game box you might consider going with two video cards in a crossfire configuration. Also, are you planning a wireless connection to a personal wireless network?

Good news on the computer case. The case below comes in at 18.9 inches tall and has the holes drilled in it for water cooling. It comes with two 140 mm fans and two 120 mm case fans. And these four fans connect to the case directly, not the motherboard. The only thing I’d recommend is to add four ZALMAN FAN MATE 2 Fan controllers to throttle back the fans. There are plenty of pictures and a couple YouTube videos on this case floating around the Internet.

AeroCool BX-500 Black 0.8mm SECC Super Mid-Tower Computer Case 109.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811196037

ZALMAN FAN MATE 2 Fan Controller X 5 = $10.97 ea

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118217&cm_re=ZALMAN_FAN_MATE_2-_-35-118-217-_-Product

For a CPU I would go with the
Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950 $294.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211

GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $209.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423

2 PCI Express x16 slots, running at x16 (PCIEX16_1/PCIEX16_2)
Support for 2-Way, 3-Way ATI CrossFireX / NVIDIA SLI technology
DDR3 2200/1333/1066/800

2 kits of Crucial Ballistix 6GB (3 x 2GB) = 12 GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model BL3KIT25664BN1337 $141.91 ea = $283.82

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148278

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $69.99
called Acoustic Management (prolly lowers the speed or something) that can be turned on or off with samsungs HD tool.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185)

I don’t do water cooling and I’m not sure you need in this situation. If you have a back then in the cabinet perhaps, you can add a large quiet fan to pull air out.

The two top of the line soundcards arty creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium and the Turtle Beach Montego DDL Sound card. Both are good for gaming and do surround sound. From what I’ve read the Turtle Beach drivers and software are less buggy and they have added support for Windows 7. The creative Sound Blaster titanium drivers and more of a pain but the signal-to-noise ratio is a tad higher.

The Sound Blaster Audigy SE Sound Card is perfectly adequate for playing music. To get the advantage out of a 109 dB sound card you need very good speakers like multi-hundred dollar Bose speakers and excellent hearing. Most people over the age of 30 don’t have the hearing to appreciate really good sound.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Sound Card - 70SB088000004 $89.21
109 dB SNR

http://www.buy.com/prod/creative-sound-blaster-x-fi-titanium-pci-express-sound-card/q/loc/101/208937611.html (http://www.buy.com/prod/creative-sound-blaster-x-fi-titanium-pci-express-sound-card/q/loc/101/208937611.html)


Turtle Beach Montego 7.1 Dolby Digital Live Surround PCI Sound Card, White Box $54.99
SNR 97, ALC888 chip

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4321577&sku=T777-1150&srkey=Turtle%20Beach%20Montego

Creative Labs SB0570L4 Sound Blaster Audigy SE Sound Card, $29.99 +29.. sh-5 rebate = $27.98
100dB signal to noise ratio

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102012&cm_re=soundblaster-_-29-102-012-_-Product

[The Wise Monkey]

Hi Griffin, welcome to the forums. Sucks that you were in an accident, but every cloud has a silver lining. :)

I think that Deneb is spot on about the CPU and motherboard, as it really is a law of diminishing returns after the i7-950 i.e. you spend much more money for a very small gain in performance.

However, I would disagree with the statements about SSDs, as I believe that they are one of the single best possible addition to any system. Not only do you get faster boot times, but faster install times for applications and orders of magnitude faster load times for every application. As far as reliability is concerned, they are in fact much more reliable that standard hard drives, as there are no moving parts to break down, and each drive is pretty much guaranteed for 10000 hours of usage.

If you want an SSD, I'd recommend a Sandforce controller based drive such as the Crucial C300 or the OCZ Vertex 2. Honestly, despite the fact that they are much more expensive than regular HDs, you won't regret it. You will probably want an SSD for the OS and applications, and have a separate standard HD for storage.

For the video card, are you an AMD or an nVidia fan? You can get an nVidia GTX 470 for about $270, and this will play all current generation games at max settings, depending on the resolution. Alternatively, the AMD Radeon 5850 will set you back the same amount, and the performance is roughly the same. It all depends on which brand you prefer.

You may find that 12GB of RAM is overkill, so you could save a bit and go for 6GB. Then, if you find that you are running out at any point, it is really easy to add more if you need it. This is really up to you though.

For the PSU, I find it hard to recommend anything other than the Corsair 850-TX, seeing as you want to run SLI/Crossfire. In fact, all of the TX range from Corsair are excellent - just check out the reviews on Newegg!

Hope this helps, and please ask if you have any questions.

[RickyTick]

Just as an update, it would be difficult to beat a GTX460 1gb for only $219.99 with free shipping and a $10 rebate on top of that.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130566

or a GTX470 for $249.99 with free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187110

[Gr1ff1n1]

I really appreciate the prompt replies and I like the idea of getting the results I want and spending less money. I'm still not too worried about the budget of this build as I know that I'll have to splurge a little in order to make the machine I want to build.

The main purpose of this build is theater. I'll be running a 3D television as the monitor and it will be part of my home theater system. I encode a lot of video as well which is why I was leaning toward the hexacore but if I can get the same results for $600 less I'm game.

The second purpose of the build is gaming. I play FFXIV and it runs pretty heavy on any system. I would like to run it and any other game I plug into my system to run on ultra settings with no issues. I know that more games are in the works to utilize multiple cores so once again the hexacore shines pretty bright.

I'm an Nvidia and Intel fan and have been for years. I'll run an SLI setup and PhysX.

I made my choices on reviews and trying to put together the best of the best. I like EVGAs service and support as well as their proucts which is why I was leaning toward the classified and evga gtx 480s. I just scratch my head though when I think about fitting it all in a case that will still squeeze into a cabinet 20.5" tall and get liquid to it to cool it. I don't know that I can get enough air to it in the cabinet but I have no problem cutting vents in the back for it. The front door to it is latticed so there will be air getting through the front. I'd also like to overclock the cpu and gpu as much as I can and I know the evga board is quite simple to set up for it.

Meh, This is basically what I want to do. If I can get it done for less than what I'm looking at and get the same results I'm game. I will definately run at least 1 SSD and the Sandforce drives look promising. Thanks. I may even run some CAT6 through the house and stream HD video but I haven't decided yet. It will come after the system is built and the TV is bought but I'd like to have the ability to do so if I decided to.

I don't know. I'm getting to the "unsure with my choices" point and afraid to commit to any parts just yet ie, mobo... I know I want multiple GTX400 series cards but not sure what to plug them into yet. Power, RAM, and cooling aren't really my concerns just yet. I need to pick a board and a case to put it in that will fit into my cabinet.

Thanks again for your responses. I'm taking everything you guys say into consideration and placing a lot of time and thought into this thing.

I need to find a good TV card as well. I haven't even began to research them. Any thoughts on a good one would be appreciated as well.

Basic operations:
1. Theater (HD, TV, 3D, DVR, PhysX, Video encoding, Video/audio sotrage and possible server)
2. Gaming machine (FFXIV, Fallout, really... you name it, I like to play stuff)
3. Adobe CS5 Master Collection will be used on this machine quite a bit as well.

I'll have a Bachellor's in Programming this spring so I'll also use it to tinker with programs and I may do some graphic programming and game design in my spare time.

[Gr1ff1n1]

I'd say this,

What would you build if you were going to build a machine like this and had an open budget?

I don't have a problem with anyone posting their ultimate build either. I would love to know what the rest of you look at in a dream machine.

I've just built an entertainment center and the spot where I'll place this is:

20.75" Tall
18" Deep
14.5" Wide

There will be a 55" LED 3D Samsung HDTV that will be providing the eye candy. I want a machine that will make my TV show me what I paid for...

[zburns]

Hi Griffin, This post is an argument in favor of liquid cooling. First, I want to comment in general about the space you have allocated for the computer case. These are general comments, not specific in terms of choosing hardware. Your space allocation is 20.75" Tall, 18" Deep and 14.5" Wide.

My Sonata case 17 tall, 18 3/4 deep and 8 wide. But you must add 3 inches to the depth for input/output cables and for the Sonata you then have 21 3/4 (effectively 22") and even with this dimension, I am bending the video cable to a tight radius. But you can probably get right angle plugs for the larger stuff to help solve the depth problem.

I use my Sonata case as an example to compare to your allocated space because the Sonata case is probably too small for what you want to put in it. For example I have one "weak" video card; the warmest place in my case is below the video card.

You plan for two hi end video cards in SLI or Crossfire configuration -- so you will have more heat -- cannot say how much until you know which cards and the "high end wattage" out. But the area below the double video card configuration will be warm to hot. You probably need a fan down there.

Next point is your entertainment center depth of 18 inches "conflicts" also with my "small" Sonata case. Your height will accept some cases as long as they are not full mid tower.

But I would think you need the "multiple fan capacity" of a larger mid tower case if you stick with fans. Your space is too small for the larger cases.

What I am doing is making the argument for liquid cooling both for the CPU and both video cards. I suggest you do take a hard look at it. This forum has one member, "Sean", who has liquid cooling on his new build about 6mos ago, so he could comment to you about his success with the cooling.

Summing up, I suggest you consider not only liquid cooling but figure someway to get to a "case size" that gives you the room inside needed for whatever components you plan to use. I know your entertainment center has a fixed dimension that appears too small. Nevertheless, you want success with whatever your build; so the right components, the right case and the right cooling should be the highest priorities!

I would also mention that several months ago, I cleaned the dust from my Sonata case for the first time in 30 months of use. I found it best that I disassemble the computer and get everything in the open to "adequately" blow the dust out using "air cans" and "static protection".

I did have "unknown" problems that caused me to clean the computer. The boot process was freezing or stopping during "post"; I had to routinely press F1 and then I could continue -- went on for months. The problem was the stick of RAM closest to my CPU chip was covered in dust, particularly along the PCB plug connection. Turns out the dust "disabled" that one stick of RAM.

I had four sticks of RAM installed. Set aside the bad stick, took out its mate and everything has run fine since then on two sticks of 1 gig.

I bring up my RAM problem to point out that dust around the RAM and the CPU is not a good idea. Depending on what makes up the "dust", it can have the electrical properties of a "resistor". Whatever circuits the "dust" lays on top of can be altered electrically to the point of some degree of degradation or outright failure -- I experienced both of these faults with one stick of RAM.

My point of the last four paras is that this is an argument for liquid cooling on the CPU at least. Because for the newer rigs today, we pay more for the CPU and maybe the mobo, perhaps it is best to go for the most sophisticated method of cooling which may be "liquid cooling".

These "gargantuan" finned towers make no sense to me; they are not attractive; they even "look like" trouble down the road. And so on!!!

As computers get older, keeping the cabinet clean from dust is very important; also, anytime you go into the case to "mess around" static control must be used. Everyone should understand, that when you go into the computer case, you run the risk of "damage from static". You never see it nor does the damage have to show itself right then. Static can "weaken" a component and lead to failure at a later date.

Dust is a bigger deal than most folks believe! Again this entire post is an argument in favor of liquid cooling.

[The Wise Monkey]

Nice post zburns, some very informative stuff there.

As for recommendations, I can offer a couple of bits of advice:

- Check the program you want to use for video stuff to see if it supports the hexacores. If not, you are probably just going to be wasting your money with that CPU
- I would definitely recommend a couple (or 3!) GTX 470s in SLI, as for about the same money as one GTX 480, you get much better performance
- For the motherboard, the Formula version of the ASUS Rampage III has excellent reviews on Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131666

[zburns]

WM, thanks for the compliment. I really do see the tall coolers as "instant dinosaurs". If the liquid cooling devices are relatively foolproof in all respects, I really would plan to use one on my next build.

As far as Griffin's build goes, if he uses liquid cooling on the cpu and the video cards, then case size or volumn to allow good air flow sort of goes out the window and he could use a smaller case with confidence. The cpu and video cards are the primary source of heat. But the case size must still allow "a neat, good looking, organized build".

Next step is to look for some good reviews from "competent" reviewers.

[RickyTick]

WM, thanks for the compliment. I really do see the tall coolers as "instant dinosaurs". If the liquid cooling devices are relatively foolproof in all respects, I really would plan to use one on my next build.

As far as Griffin's build goes, if he uses liquid cooling on the cpu and the video cards, then case size or volumn to allow good air flow sort of goes out the window and he could use a smaller case with confidence. The cpu and video cards are the primary source of heat. But the case size must still allow "a neat, good looking, organized build".

Next step is to look for some good reviews from "competent" reviewers.

I agree Z. The tall cpu coolers just don't appeal to me, even though I have one. My next purchase will be one of the self contained liquid cooler. Like these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835227007

As far as reviewers, I like the video reviews by Rodney Reynolds. ymmv :)

[Gr1ff1n1]

Thanks for all the info guys. I had originally planned on liquid cooling from the start. I want to cool my CPU and GPUs. My only concern was the size of the case needed for liquid cooling. I was under the impression that I'd need a larger case to house all the goodies. I do like the Rampage III Formula but I'm leaning more towards the Extreme because of the 4th PCI Express x16 slot in case I decide to throw another card in it. I've looked long and hard at the GTX 470 and 480 and can't seem to tear myself away from the 480. I know they're more expensive but the higher clock speed makes me a little more comfortable about not having to upgrade those cards for quite a while with the new games that will be coming out. Not only that but the benchmarks on them just shut down anything else I've looked at. I'm sure in the end when it actually comes down to peripherals and the amount of money I'll actually be spending I'll end up going with 2-3 470s so my wife doesn't shoot me in the face.

So, I'm basically starting to really consider:

Rampage III Extreme
2 GTX 480s (most likely 3 470s depending on the wife)
Liquid cooling is a definite
I also like the Corsair Dominator GT http://www.corsair.com/products/dominatorgt/default.aspx

Other than that I'm still scratching my head on the case which is really what my post started as. With the Rampage being an ATX instead of the EATX that the EVGA was it opens up the menu a little more. I still don't know where to start because there are so many. I need to be able to fit these video cards in it and liquid cooling. I really don't mind housing the resovoirs outside of the box but if I could get it all contained in one unit I'd be alot happier.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advanced.

[zburns]

Hi Griffin, Sorry to be this late getting back to you. You have provided the dimensions of your space for the case. I assume there is solid wood above and below the case. You indicated a closed in back and a louvered hinged door on the front; when you open the door a full 90 degrees, how much of the horizontal space does "end thickness" intrude on the "inside clear width"?

I assume there is no way to get a fan opening in the top; I am just asking? I am assuming there will be no top fan; just did not want to rule anything out at this point. But with liquid cooling on the cpu and the video cards, should be able to work with rear fans, I would think. So the starting point is to find a case, research the available liquid coolers, their plus and minuses; get convincing proof from the liq cooler vendors that the video card/cooler assembly will be cooled adequately.

The PSU fan and a large case fan will have to have "in line" outputs cut thru the back of the cabinet. What about the cables? Is there anyway to go sideways inside the cabinet to avoid a bunch of cabling coming out the back?

Is the case opening close to the floor? You need to be able to open the case side panel so you will have to be able to take the case out relatively easy with the cables still hooked up; you do not want access to the case side panel to be so onerous that it makes you reluctant to pull the case out into the room. This really may be important, may not seen like it right now, but I think it will prove to be necessary.

I will look for cases based on the cabinet dimensions; should be back to you on Wednesday. I will have to call some liquid cooler vendors, in addition to looking at their web sites, that will take a little time. Again, my apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

[zburns]

Hi Gr1ff1n1: Your entertainment space is 20.75" Tall, 18" Deep and 14.5" Wide. When I did my post(s), I think I was concentrating on the height of 20.75". I had measured my Sonata case which is not a large case, my length or depth is 18 5/8" rear metal to front metal; obviously I did not "look" at your depth dimension once I started looking at case dimensions -- again my concentrating on the height.

I am still looking at cases; however, the depth dimension of 18 " may be a problem; I can find out for sure fairly quickly tomorrow. My Sonata case is 18 5/8" but almost an inch goes for my swing out door and lower air intake panel that matches the cross section or the door (sticks out the same).

This extra distance (3/4" to 1") that my door sticks out would translate on a mid tower case to a depth of less than 18" by just a litte amount. So I will look for cases for that dimension.

All these cases meet an ATX specification; in doing so, most, maybe all of them have the video card in a straight line, almost butting up against the hard drive inside mounting frames -- the point of this statement being that there is a limit on the desktop cases of the depth dimension due to what I just said.

Provided your entertainment center is against a wall, you could cut an opening in the back to match the computer profile.

At any rate, I should have some comments in the morning on whether I can find a case.

You will need a large power supply, maybe as large as 1200 watts if you used 3 480 video cards. That PSU must fit inside the case also.

In order to determine PSU size I was looking for reviews on 480/470 GPU cards and my first reviewer was Guru of 3d; a very through reviewer. Here are links to three reviews on the 480 card and one of them covers the 470. One is with a liquid cooler installed, and one is three 480s in SLI mode. They are long articles and I did not read them yet, but they will contain a lot of information; I was looking for the TDP power ratings to help determine the PSU size.

Here are the three links: GeForce GTX 470 & 480 review, Published: March 27, 2010 http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-480-review/

GeForce GTX 480 3-way SLI review, Published: April 30, 2010. http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-480-3way-sli-review/

GeForce GTX 480 liquid cooling Danger Den review, Dated May 10, 2010. http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-480-liquid-cooling-danger-den-review/

[zburns]

I have looked for cases that will fit your space; I found a series of Antec cases that appear to work, and they are the NSK 4480 thru NSK 4482 series. The case dimensions are: 16.6" (H) x 7.8" (W) x 16.5" (D). They are ATX cases.

Use this link to get directly to these Antec cases: http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?Family=Mg==

The important comment about the above six or so Antec cases is that they have a very short horizontal dimension of 16.5 inches, which if they will work and hold the video card assembly, means they will fit your space and allow some room of apx 1.5" on the rear case panel for the "cables to be plugged in and bend at a 90 degree angle and go thru the "inside bottoms" of each shelf to get to where you want them".

To check out the inside dimensions, I measured from the monitor photos of this case series the requisite dimensions and proportioned the measurements to actual dimensions. It appears that the Antec 1200 watt PSU will fit inside the case with no problem; also the PSU is at the top and has a rear fan which should exit straight thru the back of the entertainment center.

As for the video card available space, theoretically, the ATX specs dictate that dimension as well as maximum video card length; however, we do not know yet, if Invidia/Evga/MSI have lived within that dimension. The dimension I came up with by proportional measurement is 11.22 inches in length available. Both of my dimensions must be checked with the actual dimensions from Antec. It is possible that I can see one of these cases at our local Fry's Electronics and make the measurements on an actual case.

Now, the Antec cases are probably not the only ones I can find; they just happen to be the first. But at least they appear to work. I need to affirm what I have said above, today, and get the "true inside dimensions" from a trusted source. Once I know there is a "case that fits"(and video cards), then analyzing the pluses and minuses on the inside is next. One point is that the PSU at the top seems to be a plus because it has a rear fan so all the "1200" watt (1200 watts is worst case) generated heat will blow directly out the computer case and directly out the back of the entertainment center provided a "inline exit hole" is cut into the cabinet.

This is my progress to date; so far I think it is a good starting point. The one anomaly is that we are trying to fit “super high powered” components into “the smallest of ATX cases”. It is true that liquid cooling of the CPU and the video cards should change “all the rules” about case size in this respect. The CPU and video cards are the most sensitive items from a heat perspective; trying to cool them with fans and fins in a very tight space means putting up with a lot of turbulence that can really screw things up to the point that it is almost impossible to analyze the cooling at all.

[Gr1ff1n1]

You are the man!!! Thank you for spending the time you have on this. I really didn't expect anyone to go as far as you have so thank you. I also apologize for not checking in for a while. I got so busy I didn't have time to think about much else. I've got 2 classes to finish my bachellor's and they are pretty heavy.

Anyway, I've gone ahead and just taken a pic of my tv center. Keep in mind the top and bottom aren't on it just yet and the doors aren't attatched. I did go ahead and include the door in the pic. As far as the back, I can cut holes for ventilation wherever I need. It really isn't a problem at all. 1/4 ply will be the back and there will be routed cutouts in the middle four shelves anyway for my PS3, Wii, BluRay, and DVR so I'm really not opposed to cutting holes where the PC will be and quite planned on it. The back will put on last just for this purpose alone. I'm waiting for the pc to be done or at least have an idea of what I need to cut out before I put the back on. Other than that I've been waiting on the weather to warm a bit so I can finish staining and varnishing the top and bottom. They're a dark java color so they're taking a little longer due to temperature issues.

http://s1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/pratherth/?action=view&current=IMAG0025.jpg

I'm in agreement with you as far as the case. I can't really vent out the top but with liquid cooling the case size really shouldn't be much of an issue as long as I can vent out the back or even the side. The front of my entertainment case will be latticed so it's vented and the back will be vented wherever I need to cut holes.

I'm really worried about space for components though. The psu as you've mentioned is great news but I'm mostly concerned with the video cards. I haven't found what I'm looking for to show me what exactly can fit into one of these smaller cases and even if I am able to get the cards and any other components I decide to slap in there i.e. TV card, Sound Card, w/e else I want to know that I'll also be able to fit the tubes and fittings and whatnot for the liquid to run through. I don't have a prob setting an external radiator next to it. Don't really want one for asthetic purposes but the door will be closed most of the time so its really not a big deal.

I dont' have access to a Fry's or Best buy or even a ma and pa pc store for that matter as I live in a small town. My only access to info is here, don't get me wrong, you and everyone else that has chipped in have been more than great, I'd just like to see something similar in person before I make my decision but this may not be possible so I'm really taking what you guys say into consideration. I've even thought about just building one out of wood but again, I want to know what else is out there and if I can just find something that will work. If not than I may go ahead and find me a good hard wood that can withstand a higher temp and just build the damn thing.

Thank you guys SO much for everything. You've already spent more time than I wanted you too on this deal and I thank you Z especially for the time you've committed to this deal.

I look forward to any and all extra info that is provided and hope to find this friggin uber all star case sometime soon!!!

Thank guys!!!

[zburns]

Hi Griffin: Sort of picked up your post a day late; my apologies! The picture of the entertainment center is evidence of excellent workmanship! It really looks good. I assume you will have a recessed "kick mold" around the bottom, 2 or 3 inches high. Do you have any plans for how you "manage" the cables coming out of the back of the various components?

I think I know what can be done with cases; not sure they are an issue any longer. I will give you these comments in my next post, but I want to write them out in advance, no freelancing.

Liquid Cooling: After looking at most of the manufacturers stuff in a cursory manner, one conclusion on my part is definite from a recommendation viewpoint. If I were putting liquid cooling on my video cards and my cpu, I would want to get the liquid transport cables out of the case in the shortest and most direct manner keeping in mind they must be routed out of the way of other components.

The reason I would not want reservoirs or pumps, etc. inside my case is because of the increased number of water connections within the case. I have a lot of experience working inside electronic enclosures, large and small; sitting on floors, laying on floors; inadequate working space, etc.. The chances for and the odds that an accident will happen at a connection are not in your favor--over time. You will have a lot of expensive electronics within the case and it is just not the best way, my opinion. I do not know any reason as to why they cannot be on the outside. Also, all connections should be screw type fittings, I think, but the mfg would have to be firm on the connections not being able to loosen up over time.

Next comment, the Dominator memory with the top fan. Not sure that has to be liquid cooled or not; I assume Corsair can give some good advice.

Comments about getting all components within the case. The motherboard meets an ATX space requirement, and has multiple screw holes for mounting to already pressed in fasteners in the closed side of the case. Mobo holes match the case mounting fasteners locations.

All of your components fit within the confines of the motherboard perimeter; from the Rampage III picture, it looks like it will accept two SLI gpus with several PCB slots left over, but if you go to three way SLI, things look a little too covered up; not sure what is left over in the way of PCB plugs. I will call Asus tomorrow and get clear on that.

The liquid cooling lines come off the respective components perpendicular to the mobo and should not interfere with any other components; that seems to be my conclusion after looking at photos on the reviews, and web sites. In fact since you will not have an enormous fin cooler, you will pick up "empty" air space!

I think that is it for tonight, more tomorrow. Good luck on finishing up your Bachelors Degree.

[zburns]

Hi Griffin, This post will be a brief report on what I have found on the case issue; it is a confusing issue because, I guess, things such as the two mobo choices you have choosen are so powerful which causes both mobos to be about one inch wider than "standard ATX sizes" creates a case choice problem. Likewise with the video card choice of 480 or 470. Both of these cards are the same length as the Asus and Evga mobos are wide. The Antec 4482 case, 16.5" deep, will not work for the components you have chosen; should be evident based on my comments that follow. EDIT WED,NOV 17. The Antec 4482 case, 16.5" deep, will only accept mobo's that are 9.5" wide and video cards 9.5" in length (with no plugs or wires coming out of the "right hand end" of the card). Any case with a length of about 16.5" will not work. The following discussion is the "proof" of the introductory statement. END EDIT.

To explain the problem, look at the following Antec case at this link: http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjM3Ng== This is the Antec Sonata Proto case with dimensions: 17.0" (H) x 8.51" (W) x 18.7" (D)
Below the main picture of the case, are three smaller pictures, click on the middle one that shows the case from the side with the cover off. Here you see the empty inside of the case. On the inside, the space between the left rear of the case and the "various drive storage areas" on the right is the space where the mobo with all its plug in boards will be installed. It is just enough space to accomodate either of your choice of mobos and all the 480s or 470s you want to install in accordance with the gpu mfg recommendations.

The mobo width of the Asus board (evga just a tad less) is 10.6" (a full inch wider than my Asus M2N32-SLI deluxe board of the 2006 -2007-8 era). The mobo and video cards are then bumper to bumper with the left side rear of the case and the vertical hard drive assembly on the right.

So the measurement from the extreme left side to the extreme right side for length is "bumper to bumper, no wasted space" as you look at the picture. To gain some space at the right hand end of the video cards, you could narrow up the hard drive area to the right and install SSDs (maybe, depending on how they are packaged and cooled ). Right now, I am just saying it could be done because SSDs are smaller than disc hard drives -- it is another subject to look at. Doing this would create some space on the right (free end) of the video cards. The space should work regardless of any alteration to the hard drive area; my comment was meant to show how to create a little more space on the right side of the video cards.

The open/close door of the Sonata Proto case adds about 5/8 inch to the length of the case which is unnecessary if you do not want a door. The overall length of the case is 18.7 inches, less 5/8 inches would put the length a little over 18" --THE POINT BEING that 18" is the minimum case dimension length, assuming similar inside component spacing as I have described above.

Eighteen inches is the inside depth of your cabinet. Whether you have an 18" deep case or a 18.75 " case, even a little longer, is immaterial because the front of the case can be lined up with the front opening of the cabinet, and the rear of the case will line up or stick a little out the back. But then you get to the cables; even dressed up properly and bent downward and well ty wrapped, they will stick out about 1 1/2" minimum. If you wanted to hide what I just described, a thin sheet metal frame painted flat black, fastened around the opening would provide decent "hiding", assuming the entire entertainment center / television was up against a wall; even if the entertainment center was 45 degrees across a corner, the back side would be more hidden. Another point is that you have more electronics and more wires coming out the rear.

My point of all of the above is that you have to use a case with a minimum length of 18" to 18.75" depending to some degree on how the inside is configured.

I also think the PSU should be at the top, but I do see a lot of the Antec gaming cases with the PSU at the bottom; just seems to me PSU at the top keeps PSU heat out of the rest of the stuff.

I encourage you to make a decision on using an 18 inch (plus a little depending on case choice) and we go from there. I will continue to look at other cases including cooler master, but as long as the mobo and video cards are as you presently have chosen, I really think the case length will have to be at the 18 inch plus range.

I used the Sonata Proto case because it is current, and, the case basic frame, I think is identical to my Sonata 500 purchased in 2008. So in order to get to my conclusions above, I was looking at a real case and checking measurements. A comment on Antec. There manufacturing quality is superb. The inside metal frame appears to be stamped in high speed punch presses which means "carefully machined dies for stamping" --enormous initial investment. Well made products!!

(A correction to one of my liquid cooling statements earlier; the water hoses come off the video card water blocks at a right angle above the cards; this is the case for two manufacturers, Swiftech (on the Evga Card) and Danger Den. Should not be a problem.)

[Gr1ff1n1]

Thank you again for the amount of time you've put into this post and again I apologize for my late reply. It's been one of those weather changing got sick kind of weeks and just now getting back into the groove again. Unfortunately I haven't the time to even get to read everything but I'll certainly chime in first thing after work tomorrow. Thank you for the compliments on the case. It will have a seperate top and bottom going into it. Unfortunately the weather isn't agreeing with my finish so I'm waiting on a warmer day so I can get the thing completed.

Before I forget I did get a chance to check out several of the Coolermaster mid-size cases that I may be able to get in there. I'm tempted to just let the case hang out of the back an inch or so if need be depending on whether I can get multiple gpus in a case that will fit completely.

I'll finish catching up tomorrow evening. Thanks again for the help!!!