Problem With My PC

[Khapheen]

Hi everybody,

I haven't logged in to the forum much lately -- too busy trying to stay afloat to dream up my next computer -- but I've got a problem with the computer I put together last August. I figure I got lots of great advice then, maybe someone can point me in the right directon now.

My pc has been running great over the last year, but has been locking up lately. It seems to happen when I'm playing games (actually, I only have one game, age of empires 2) which makes me wonder if the tiny 256MB graphics card I put in has gone south, although that's really only a guess.

When it happens, there really isn't any warning. Everything just freezes up, the screen goes black after a moment, and then the computer shuts itself down. Sometimes, when I restart it, it shuts itself down again the second time. But, when I start it back up, everythingseems to work okay. No problems otherwise.

I was thinking of just replacing the graphics card and seeing what happens, but wanted to get some more informed opinions first. Any thoughts?

Thanks as always for all the great help!

-Matt

[The Wise Monkey]

What are the temperatures for your graphics card and CPU? It might be overheating, which could cause it to crash. Of course, when your PC reboots, it has cooled down enough to work again.

[Khapheen]

embarrasing to ask this, but where would I find/get that info?

[RickyTick]

Hey Matt. Sorry you're having problems, but glad to see you back in the forums.

You could try downloading a software program called Precision. It's from EVGA and could be very helpful. You can always uninstall it later if you don't like it, but it monitors your gpu temperature among other things.
http://www.evga.com/precision/

I'm thinking along the same lines as Wise Monkey. It's probably a heat issue or a driver issue. I would open up the case and check all the connections and clean out all the dust inside. Then I would uninstall the driver and then install the latest WHQL driver from nvidia.com.

Hope that helps. Best of luck.

[zburns]

If you want to see your CPU temp, go to BIOS, Power, Hardware Monitor for Asus M2N32SLI Deluxe or look in your inst. book for the equivalent BIOS terms if not ASUS. But you will have a CPU temp read out in your BIOS. 42 degrees C, my lowest, AMD dual core 5600, highest has been up to 53 C but I do no gaming. Ricky, WM, other gamers would know there routine high temps on CPU.

[Khapheen]

hi guys,

thanks as always for all the great ideas. I'm going to try a couple of these out and then do some gaming (if you can really call playing such old games gaming) and will report back on what I find. Thanks!

-Matt

[Khapheen]

So, the first thing I tried last night was going out to OfficeMax and buying a couple cans of air. I used to have one right here by my desk, but it ran out a couple of months ago, and I had kind of forgotten about it. Of course, when the computer was brand-new, I was so proud of my "creation," that I cleaned it probably once a week. But, with all of the stress and work lately, I had really let it slide.

I mention all of that because when I opened up the side, I couldn't believe how dusty it was inside. I went through almost an entire can of airjust getting things cleared out and looking good again. Then I double checked that everything was plugged in, still in place, etc., and just for the sake of it, started the computer back up.

It seemed to be running a lot better right away. I messed around for a couple of hours trying to "stress" it (again, I really only have one game that something like 10 years old) but it seemed to be running perfectly.

It seems improbable that the whole problem could've just been a little bit of dust, and I haven't had enough time to figure out if it's actually running that better not, but I thought it was worth coming back and mentioning. Amazing that such a simple thing has the potential to muck up the system so much.

[The Wise Monkey]

Yeah - dust can really clog the fans up and mess up the airflow through your case, thus increasing temperatures.

I recently rebuilt my parents' PC, and had to clean out cobwebs from inside their case!

[zburns]

Note: Last paragraph may be the most applicable comment. Almost forgot this possibility.

Here is a link to a "dust conductivity for electronic circuits" : http://www.tmworld.com/file/6090-6545584.pdf

I read the first several pages of it, page 2 gives a little insight into dust and conductivity. I am a little suprised that this is the cause; if dust is the problem, it had to become conductive enough "at the right place on the right circuit" to alter the electrical properties enough to cause a circuit not to work properly. Your dust could contain some metalic particles or water vapor to make it more conductive and create the problem sooner rather than later.

The other problem the dust can cause is too "act as an insulator" and cause heat to build up or block the flow of air across components and allow them to heat up. If the dust acts as an insulator, then it would prevent heat from "radiating off" a component and allow it to overheat.

Circuit board design in computer circuits requires very close spacing between "circuit board traces"; the soldered in microchip components also have very close spacing. This type design "assumes" that the "close spacings" will not be comprised by "outside contamination" such as "conductive dust".

Practically speaking, there is no way for you to tell exactly "what caused the problem" other than cause and effect. You blew the dust off, everything works; that is more or less conclusive. But you do not know whether it was a conductivity problem or a "heat containing" insulation problem (ie. CPU overheating due to reduced air flow, dust acting as insulator.)

Important: Almost forgot. I suggest you make it a point now that you are running to check the operating temps of the CPU regularly, compare them to other forum members knowledge of what their temps are under same load conditions (ie. gaming, non gaming, etc.). Same applies to Video card assuming the EVGA Precision software works to tell you temperature where needed there. You could have an ongoing problem, in that your computer is running too hot under what you consider normal conditions, and the dust accumalation created a heat build up problem that may or may not have occured if the computer was not running too hot in the first place.

[zburns]

I went back and checked your build best I could. Do you have an Asus mobo, Antec III case and AMD Phenom Quad CPU?

Assuming this is your build, couple of comments. Before you had this problem, had you ever pulled out the mesh filter in the front of the cabinet and washed it out? If you did not do this from initial turn on until this problem, then this filter could have been clogged, reduced air flow, allowed CPU temps to go up, Video card temps to go up, etc. . Finally shut down from safety circuits in your electronics.

The air flow thru this filter is the primary air source for the Antec Sonata III case; there are other inlets but they are small and not nearly as large as the inlets for the large mesh filter.

Another question is about "where the computer case sits" during the problem period. Has it always sat in this location? Is the long case dimension perpendicular to a wall? If so how close to the wall is the back of the computer case?

Last question, do you know the CPU temp from your BIOS, Power, Hardware Monitor screen with the computer "at rest". Just sitting there, desktop screen showing, no open browser, no apps running, etc..

If you can give me the above, I can give you some temp comparisons to my Antec Sonata III case, etc..

Final comment, even now I have some dust inside but I have never cleaned or blown it out and I have been running since April or May 2008; do not remember.

(I assume you have the Antec case same as mine. If you do not have the case, my comments have less to little meaning and just add confusion).

[zburns]

I messed up!! Went back once more, now I see that you have Antec 300; read up quickly, it too has a mesh filter. If the input to that mesh filter is the major air input source, then if that filter was not routinely cleaned, it could clog, reduce air flow, cause "heating up", your problem etc..

Also, it your computer case has a rear fan, and sits 4 to 6 inches off and perpendicular to a flat wall, then you may have turbulance being created by fan speed air flow out of the back of the case. You can prove this by measuring the CPU temp at rest with the case in its normal position and aimed at the wall; then angle the case 45 degrees, pull it out a little bit also, let the computer run at rest a while and see what the CPU temp does then. In my case I gained a few degrees C by doing this.

A better solution if you want to keep it close to the wall is to make a "curved air deflector" shaped like a large "V" but with slightly caved in side walls; such a shape would keep the fan outflow from just hitting the wall and bouncing back with some degree of interference; it should shove it off to the sides (but not back at the computer) -- I have not tried this yet, but my intention is to do so. I assume it will work fine.

If you do this stuff, I am talking about, do things one step at a time and note the improvement or gain. My point is that, assuming good heat sink operation and your computer running at rest for 15 or 30 min, your CPU "resting" temp will be at its lowest temp and therefore, an indicator as to the "mesh" needing to be cleaned; also, an indicator about any interference off the wall the rear output fan faces.

[Khapheen]

I agree totally - it's much too early to know whether or not the dust was actually the cause, but it really was uncanny the way I cleaned it out and performance picked up almost immediately.

I will try to do some better monitoring and get back with some more info. I'm running an AMD dual core 3.0 system with an ASUS motherboard and an Antec 300 case.

[zburns]

Hi Matt, just happened to see your post. My mesh filter and yours should be similar in size of "mesh" openings; your overall filter size may be larger than mine. The holes are large but they do clog up and air still goes thru them. If you have a base operating "at rest temp" with the mesh filter holes wide open, then you have a "starting point" for "at rest" CPU temp. So eventually the CPU temp will tell you when to clean the mesh (maybe, I hope, sounds like it should); seriously, once the mesh impedes the air flow the CPU temp has to go up. So you watch it, say every two weeks; when it starts to move (or you may give it one or two degrees) you clean the mesh.