Specs for a 99.99% uptime 4-8 screen trading machine...

[pcoghlan]

I have spent some time today perusing this site and at the risk of asking questions that have been asked many times before ( a) I couldn't see them and b) I suspect the answer differs for each situation) here goes. I would be highly appreciative of any input anyone can provide that would help me finalize the spec for a PC.

I trade commodities and have a project to build a replacement machine. The machine is my livelihood and so budget isn't really a consideration in the normal sense. That isn't to say I want to spend $10k but equally I wont flinch from spending $2k-3k if necessary, * which I don't think it is *

The answer (hardware specs) will obviously depend on the question (my requirements) and so here they are.

Operating System
I am unable to put into words my distaste for Vista so I will simply say that for me the choices are probably Windows Server 2003 or Windows XP Pro unless someone comes up with something I cannot think of. My trading platform is a Windows application so this rules out Linux etc. I currently run Win 2003 Server and think it a very solid platform. I will confess that my aversion to Vista is brought on by the indirect experience of trading with someone for whom it crashes 3-4 times a day, normally whilst in a trade.

Monitors
I am currently running 3 19" screens at a resolution of 1280*1024, want move to 4 and have expandability to as much as 8 in the future. That doesn't mean I want the cards for monitors 5-8 now but the room for the card(s). I dont need super high numbers of colors. Just good, solid ability to run a desktop across 4-8 monitors. I already have 3 19" DVI monitors. I do have a card on my desk as I type (GeForce 8600GT 540M 1GB DDR2 TV DVI PCI-E) which if I can utilize as part of the machine then great, if not no problem.

Storage
I don't have huge space requirements, 100-200GB should be ample. What I do need though is resilience. I am thinking about either a RAID array or some beefy backup arrangement. Speed IS of the essence as the charting software writes and read tons of data in real time as data is fed to it from the network.

Backup
I remember the days of DAT tapes but am sure things have come a long way?! Looking to have the machine auto-backup each night. Possibly looking for the entire disk to back itself up.

Memory
I am guessing the more the merrier so am happy to listen to advice.

Computer Case
I want something that is solid, will hold ample power, external ports and be quiet. I use the machine 12-15 hours a day and on most days it runs overnight too. The current machine has maybe 5-10 hours of downtime per month.

Sound
I do want sound but nothing crazy. My trading platform has the ability to speak to me in the event of alerts etc so some simple sound card or even on board sound will suffice.

Networking
I need CAT5 connectivity with wifi as backup.

Security
I don't know what is out there but if I can somehow lock the machine so if it is stolen the data is inaccessible that would be great. I don't know if finger print scanning is still a gimmick or working well, it would seem a good possibility.

Applications
For information only. The machine will ONLY run my trading platform (Tradestation), Firefox, MS Excel and whatever security package is deemed appropriate to prevent the usual attacks. NOTHING else will run on it.

Power
Is it possible to build UPS into the case? Dual power supplies for redundancy? My aim is a machine with 99.99% up time. Probably impossible on a Windows platform but there you are, I am a dreamer.

Future proofing
I am realistic enough to understand that the machine will be old news within 24 months. If however it is possible to somewhat guard against this that would be great.

Have I missed anything?!

So, where to start??????

Do I pick a suitable motherboard, the graphics card(s) and then find a case to suit.

As I said above, I will be highly appreciative of any input provided.

Paul

PS: apologies for this being so long but I figured it would help those trying to make recommendations!

[RickyTick]

You might seriously consider Windows 7. It's due out very soon. You can already run the beta. It's said to be very stable and very reliable. You can read about it in detail HERE (http://www.winsupersite.com/Default.asp).

[pcoghlan]

Thanks for that. I will take a look but I would be a little too wary about trusting such a new OS for something like a trading machine.

If it proved itself stable then maybe 6-12 months out once the wrinkles have been ironed out.

[The Wise Monkey]

I'd recommend Windows Server 2008 - based on Vista, but is more reliable.

For the hard drives, you could go with a RAID 0+1 array of 4 high speed drives e.g. WD Raptors. This gives the best balance of performance and data redundancy.

External hard drives are very good for backups, or you could buy a NAS device and organise a backup via your network.

Depending on the software you use, you may want to consider 8GB of RAM, but I doubt you will ever use anywhere near that much, so 4GB will probably be enough.

CPU wise, I'd suggest getting one of the new i7 core processors, as they are performing very well in benchmarks and offer the best future proofing options. With this comes an X58 motherboard which has 3 graphics card slots, thus allowing for up to 12 monitors, if you so desired.

As far as PSUs go, having a UPS is probably the most cost effective option, but having more than one PSU could be the most ideal solution for you. If you do decide to have multiple PSUs, then you will need a server case as well since most standard cases will not have that facility.

So a possible build would be:

Lian Li Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112140
EVGA X58 Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188039
Intel i7 920 CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
6GB Corsair RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145220
Corsair 750W PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006
4x 150GB WD Velociraptors: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136296

This graphics card comes with 4 DVI ports:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102809

All of that without the video card comes to about $1700. If you wanted to improve in any way, you could go for the i7 940, which would add an extra $250 onto the final price. In addition to this, you could get a 1TB external hard drive for about $80, or buy a NAS device for about $200. As for wifi, you can get a USB wifi dongle for fairly cheap nowadays.

[pcoghlan]

Thanks a million for taking the time to reply. I will look at Windows 2008 Server now. Quick question, I just noticed there is a Windows XP Pro 64 bit edition. Would this be a suitable candidate? I know XP is becoming a bit yesterday but if it has the resilience that XP Pro has AND enhanced performance it might be worth looking at. Assume RAID can be supported within XP Pro?

Checking out the other items now. The case looks like it would hold anything I could throw at it!

Thanks again,
Paul

[chunkylover53]

Nice setup WM. :cool:

pc, as far as the UPS, I want to add my thoughts. If the power goes out for an extended period, your going to be down unless you have a generator. Even with a $300 UPS, you will only be able to run the machine at full load for 5-10 minutes.

Second, even the small ones are too big to build into your case. I have this little guy http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101311, and it's like a freakin cinder block.

The key for a UPS, in addition to surge protection, is that it provides enough power for you to shut down without losing data. Once you connect it to the PC (usually via USB), Windows Device Manager picks it up and you can configure it to shut the computer down if the battery drops below a certain level.

Here's one rated pretty solid on Newegg. Can you believe, the thing is only 13.5" x 3.9" x 9.8", but it's 25lbs? :eek: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048)

[pcoghlan]

chunky, yes all I am looking for is 5-10 mins support. This is more than enough time to close any time critical trades and close down the machine. I had an instance where the power failed for only a few seconds and by the time I got it booted again a trade had moved $800 against me. I quickly added an external UPS which I now have under the desk connected to the network router, the computer and the first monitor.

This will actually quite likely be fine for the new machine.

[The Wise Monkey]

The issue you might have with using XP 64 is the availability of drivers. If you do some research and find all the correct drivers, including the pre-install RAID drivers, then there is no problem with using XP 64.

I've always been a fan of the Lian Li cases - huge amounts of room and excellent cooling, plus they look great. If you wanted to save a bit of money, you could have a look at the Antec 900 or 1200, as these are both very good cases too, but it all comes down to personal preference in the end. Just make sure that the case you decide on has good cooling as you will need it to keep your graphics cards cool.

[pcoghlan]

Thanks wisemonkey, I will continue to look at XP Pro, WInd Server 2003 and Win Server 2008 as potential choices for the OS. I already have a Win Server 2003 license so this might win out due to ease of access.

Paul

[The Wise Monkey]

Might be a good idea - is it Server 2003 64-bit?

[pcoghlan]

Afraid not, Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition

[The Wise Monkey]

Hmm, that won't allow you to use the full amount of the RAM, so it might be worth getting a 64-bit OS.

[pcoghlan]

OK, although I suspect Win Server 2003 with 6GB RAM would be more than sufficient for my 2 apps (Tradestation and Excel).

I see the motherboard is single CPU only. I was thinking about dual Intel Xeons, bad move?

Paul

[The Wise Monkey]

If you've got the money to spare, a dual CPU setup will give excellent performance.

Server 2003 Standard Edition will only allow up to about 4GB of RAM, so you could save some money by getting less RAM - the RAM I suggest below is $23 at the moment with mail in rebate.

Here's a possible dual CPU setup - same components as before except for these new ones:

SuperMicro Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182130
2x E5410: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117149
4GB RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227267

These three things alone come to about $1000, but will all perform very well together.

[pcoghlan]

Thanks a million!

I am going to try to have a think this evening about the pros and cons of the two versions (single versus dual CPU) and will have parts ordered in the next day or so. All look to be solid components

Paul

[pcoghlan]

FINAL question, I promise!

Could you confirm that it is possible to install two of the SAPPHIRE 100270SR Radeon HD 4850 X2 2GB 512-bit cards into the EVGA X58 Motherboard and thereby run up to 8 DVI monitors?

Thanks,
Paul

[chunkylover53]

It will handle three cards, so you have the option to run up to 12 monitors.

[The Wise Monkey]

Chunky is right - three PCI-E slots means potential for three graphics cards and up to twelve monitors.

The SuperMicro server board I suggested has two PCI-E slots, so can run two graphics cards and up to eight monitors.

[pcoghlan]

Thanks guys, you have been truly helpful.

I decided to go with the earlier spec and will be ordering today.

I don't know that I am throwing enough load at the machine to justify a dual CPU combo. Tradestation is a fairly light app, add MS Excel to it and that is about all I will be running!

I will let you know how it pans out.

Paul

[The Wise Monkey]

That's fair enough - the first specs will still be very good. :)

[pcoghlan]

Possibly a stupid question but do I need to order a CPU cooler?!

[The Wise Monkey]

You don't need one, as the CPU comes with one anyway, but it might be a good idea - the i7 chips do get quite hot under load. There are few compatible CPU coolers available for LGA1366 socket at the moment, so I'd recommend this clip from Zalman which allows you to use their excellent 9700 series CPU coolers with the i7 CPU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118045

Here is the link to the CNPS9700 - an excellent choice:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019

[pcoghlan]

All components arriving today so I will hope to see just how fast they are in the next day or so. Thanks a million for all your input. I will post results once built.

Paul

[pcoghlan]

Happy camper. PC components arrived and I am typing on it now.

I have a couple of issues which I will post in the relevant forums but in short:

1) only reporting 2GB RAM even though I have 3 2GB DIMMS. I know XP has limitations and will be moving to XP 64-bit later in the week

2) I would like to benchmark the machine to see how well it is performing.

Final summary, VERY happy with it. the recommendations made by Wise Monkey were indeed super. The machine is rocket fast!

[The Wise Monkey]

Glad you like it. :D

You will only be able to use a maximum of 3GB by using a switch on boot up. Basically, you need to edit the boot.ini file and add in the /3GB switch after the OS description. However, I wouldn't recommend this, especially as you are moving to XP 64 soon.

The PCMark software is pretty good at giving an all-round interpretation of how your PC is performing:

http://www.futuremark.com/products/pcmark05/