Popping from speakers

[CrazyMike]

Hello all - I built my computer basically as outlined in the current recommendations.

My MB is a Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 and I'm running XP (and Ubuntu linux as a dual-boot).

While the sound generally works - I get an intermittant 'popping' sound that is more frequent when I'm using IE but it does happen while other programs run.

I've downloaded the most recent driver from Intel, but the problem persists. Anyone else have this issue?

[The Wise Monkey]

Which driver from Intel?

[CrazyMike]

Oops - actually it is from Realtek's website. I have Version 2.11 but it looks like they released a new one today. I gotta run, but I'll try it tomorrow...

[The Wise Monkey]

Ok, give it a go. Make sure that you completely remove the old driver before installing the new one.

[CrazyMike]

Well that didn't work.

Maybe I didn't completely uninstall correctly. I just clicked on the 'uninstall driver' button on the Realtek High Definition Audio driver in the device manager then installed the new one. Do I need to manually delete files?

[RickyTick]

You can use a drive cleaner. I like Driver Sweeper. Google it.

[CrazyMike]

The Driver Cleaner did not work. I'm still getting a popping sound randomly every 5-25 seconds...

Am I the only one where the sound is creating this issue???

[The Wise Monkey]

Another possible reason is that your speakers might be damaged. Check all connections etc and try them on another music system/PC if you can.

[CrazyMike]

The speakers are fine. They were just moved over from my old PC and the popping also goes away when I boot into Ubuntu.

There seem to be two anomolies here:
1. The obvious popping that seems loosely correlated with sound events (i.e. the 'click' when ie changes pages, etc)
2. Other sound events like Windows starting or exiting have the front part of the sound event clipped. Not replaced with a pop, but the first note or two are missing from the sound event.

It seems like there is some sort of conflict in the sound system, but the device manager shows no conflict...

[The Wise Monkey]

Hmm...

Are you running SP3?

[CrazyMike]

Yes I am...

[CrazyMike]

OK - this is driving my CRAZY!!!!

Some more observations:
- The popping noise occurs about 3 seconds after a sound event stops.
- The initial second of a sound event is not heard, but any sound events work (sound) normal after the first second.
- After the first second, sound events play normally if coninuous or if started within 3 seconds of last sound event end (before 'pop' is heard)

This seems to indicate the pop is heard when the sound device on my computer 'deactivates.' The lack of sound in teh first second of a sound event indicates a delay in the activation of the sound device.

I reverted back to SP2 but that didn't solve the problem either.

Any more ideas???

[zburns]

A couple of suggestions: If your mobo has on board audio, remove your sound card and try the on board audio. Did your old computer have a sound card or just on board audio? This could be important!

I assume your bass speaker has a 110v power cord with a plug. 110v plugs have three "looks". One is the two flat prongs with the u shape rounded ground prong -- 3 prongs total; second is two prongs only, both prongs identical in size so that the plug goes in either way -- put it in one way, pull it out, rotate 180 and plug it back in; third is the two prong "polarized" plug, but one prong is slightly wider so the plug goes in the socket only one way.

I assume you are pluging the speaker into one of the surge protect outlets; whatever it plugs into, the plug has to have no "wiggle". If plug is two pronged and can be reversed in the socket, try it both ways.

Popping in audio is due to poor or loose ground connection, poor or loose 110v connection, intermittent component in power supply or the dedicated audio electronics. An arc anywhere that is made worse by amplification.

If your mouse and key board are wired, not wireless, make sure connections in back of computer are snug, no looseness. (the click in ie, here)With the pops occuring, slightly wiggle the keyboard and mouse wires and connectors at the computer.

Since the speakers are old, check all wires by pulling on them and gently bending them at the point they go into a connector -- do this also using a finger to try to bend the wire or cable at a right angle instead of its normal "straight out" of the connector position. Do this on the power cord also. You would be looking for a broken or loose wire in a factory cable that "looks normal" otherwise.

Before you do this next step in next para, make sure you have "safe clearance" to do what I am saying; put on a glove if you do not, or use a stiff material that is an insulator like wood or plastic. Also, use static protection. IMPORTANT FOR SAFETY: Keep one hand free in the air all the time; do not stick one hand inside the cabinet and touch the cabinet with the other hand! Make sure you absolutely understand this!

Using static protection wrist strap clipped to metal on cabinet for this next item: Inside your cabinet while the popping is going on, with one finger push "just slightly" on the top edge of your sound card, then a little side to side movement. You are trying to create pressure on the mobo where the pcb goes into the mobo connector; do it gently, not rough or quick.

Non of the above isolates IE doing it and Ubuntu not doing it. Above I am just giving you all the things to look for that can cause "poping", also older system or manufacturing defect finally showing itself.

The pop almost has to start with a relatively large "spit" or arc, or a very small one that goes thru amplification. Software running at meg or gig speed does not make sense because the currents have to be very small like in micro amps or smaller.

Also should be something simple. What does the cabinet sit on? Same surface as keyboard and mouse? Static possiblities here.

[zburns]

Just saw your post a few minutes ahead of mine. I'll look at it now. Is your description the way it happens 100 % of the time? You are identifying a "pattern"; may not be only one. I read it; first impression, pull sound card, use on board audio if you can. Your large bass speaker should have power cord; this means some electronics in side that cabinet. Three seconds later sounds like something "gross", like in a simple piece of equipment like the bass speaker electronics.

Is this observation common to both "IE" and ubuntu? When you plug or wire speakers to audio electronics, there is something very specifically required, and that is called "impedance matching". Although your speakers worked fine on your old system, it may not be matched to your new system. I assume your speaker plug in connectors go into the Realtec card (I use onboard on my new build, so I have no sound card and do not know) or do they go into mobo connectors.

If your speakers are not compatible with the new system, the easiest way to find out is to borrow a new set from someone or use a "headset", etc..

This is my third or fourth addition to this reply. My comments on "impedance matching" apply primarily to older large speaker systems, not necessarily computer size systems of today; however, it is possible you have a "incompatibility" between the sound card and the speakers; might depend on how old your old system really is.

Back to your 3 seconds discovery! Does this happen with both sets of software or not?

[zburns]

I googled "computer speakers impedance matching"; evidently it is still somewhat of a big deal. What this means right now is "how compatible" the speakers are to the new system vs. the old system. Goes to age of old system and whether or not your new sound card gives a "spec" on what the speakers must meet.

Your last post, "popping about 3 seconds after event stops. Initial second of a sound event not heard." This means to me, there is a delay in the speakers responding to the initial signal from the sound card, and a delay after the sound card stops and the popping occurs. This points to some degree of incompatibility between sound card and speakers or onboard audio and speakers. This is my impression right now; but it does not compute that IE does it and Ubuntu does not! You only have one problem. If everything worked fine with onboard audio and speakers and the popping only occured with sound card in place, this would tend to prove incompatibility between speakers and sound card. IE nor Ubuntu would enter into this senario.

[The Wise Monkey]

I was thinking that it could be corruption of the Windows system sounds, which may have been solved by installing a new SP, but I guess not.

Try running a repair on XP - you won't lose any data or programs as it will just be replacing the core OS files with the ones from the original CD. You will lose IE bookmarks and will have to donwload updates again, which is a pain, but it might solve your problem. Also, it may overwrite the GRUB bootloader with the default XP one, but you can always re-download GRUB again.

[zburns]

All I am trying to do was throw every possibility out on the table. He does have a weird problem. Whatever it is may be straightforward and simple, but he has to find it by process of elimination; his approach does seem methodical. His observation on the inital time delay and a similar delay at the end is fascinating. You know the software as good or better than anyone; I'm an old high end stereo buff trying to learn the "insides" of computers.

[zburns]

Mike, is there anything about your old speaker system that from a "hook up" point of view is "elective", meaning you have a choice about how to do something when installing. Also, assuming your larger bass speaker contains some electronics, has it ever been opened up or in any way worked on? Stupid thoughts but just trying to cover all bases! (really reaching now, but you never know)

[CrazyMike]

OK, sorry for the really long delay in my reponse!!

I do have some updates:
1. The problem still exists
2. The problem DOES exist in Ubuntu with the same behavior
3. The popping does NOT exist with headphones plugged into the front port however there are more observations there:
3a. There is a very high pitched hum in the background on the analog signal that 'disappears' when you click on any button or perform any action on the computer, but it comes back quickly. However, the audio sounds are relatively normal on top of the 'just loud enough to be annoying' hum

The speakers are old Boston Acoustics BA-635 speakers. I never moved them around when I set this computer up and I can't imagine the digital output on this computer doesn't work on the BA speakers - they're not ancient...

Well, I just tried going all analog and that seems to have worked - sound is working normally there. I hate having to give up the digital connection though!

Any more ideas?

[zburns]

I did not have an internet connection yesterday so I am just now seeing your post. I have your mobo model #. What is the model or cat # of your Realtec (?) sound card. Your mobo has onboard audio chipset, Realtec ALC889A; looked at a number of forum comments but came up "0" on ideas there.

Questions: Did you pull your sound card and go to "onboard audio"? Your comments above are based on using the sound card or onboard audio, which one? What is the model # of headphones you used?

Para 3a above applies only to headphones out of the front port, correct?

Things are ok "by going all analog, sound normal, etc". This means (1) the analog output from your sound card, and (2) your speakers that are plugged into the back of your cabinet. Correct?

I did some research, and found that maybe your speakers are analog only, but even if true, it does not fully explain the whole problem. Give me the answers above so that I am certain of your observations and I will try to find out the loose ends. I am as curious as you are!

[CrazyMike]

Sorry for the confusion:

- I'm using the MB onboard sound; I have no additional sound card but now I'm tempted to buy one!!!
- The BA-635 accepts both analog and digital.
- The headphones I used were my gf's running headphones, not sure what the brand was on them. They were plugged into the headphone jack on the front of my computer
- The analog connection I'm now using between my computer and the speakers are connected to the back line-out port on the computer and in the analog input of the BA-635 speakers

[zburns]

First, I have searched the web for everything about BA635 speakers; read plenty about them. Lots of compliments about the "big sound quality" coming from the 3 speaker set, nothing negative about the sound. I have seen "absolutely" nothing that says they are digital speakers, more important I have seen no real technical specs on them as far as digital or analog input.

I have looked at numerous articles that use the word "analog" in front of BA635 when comparing them to other speakers; not one time, the use of the word "digital" in front of BA 635. I will give you an example later and a link.

The sub woofer has one single audio input and it is not labeled either analog or digital.

Technical comments: Hum is generally caused by 60 cycle electric field inducing the hum in the wiring because of improper grounding of the shielding around wires that transmit very low audio signals. The induced 60 cycle hum level is close to the same level as the audio signal and it, the hum, proceeds thru the system just as the desired audio signal does.

Specifically, about your problem. I tried to find "wiring schematics" on your speaker system and could not. There may be tech manuals out there but the one site I found for them sort of indicated they were no longer available, but I will look again when I have time.

The fact that your system works fine using analog is a further indicator that it may only be intended to work on analog. In your earlier posts, you figured out the time delay at the beginning of sound (bieing chopped off) and the time delay at the end when popping occurred. Your observation is "significant" and is a very positive "indicator" that your speakers are "analog"; the "chopping off" problem at beginning and delayed popping, the fact that "analog all the way" seems to work are further indicators that the speakers are only analog.

Your subwoofer does have a "electronic network" inside; it will contain some "electrical capacitors" which "charge up" and "discharge" depending on circuit conditions. As an analog signal increases in size and then decreases, the capicitor gets more charge and then discharges to follow the analog signal, but with a time delay (depending on the circuit parameters).

Digital audio derived from analog signals uses "sampling" of the audio signal to create individual "bytes" of data from the audio signal with "empty space" between the "bytes".

An Analog device cannot be fed directly by a digital signal, and vice versa. It takes a "analog to digital" converter or "digital to analog" converter depending on which direction you are headed.

So if your "network" inside the BA 635 subwoofer is analog, you cannot feed it direct with a digital signal. The network will not respond "correctly" (or as intended); nor is there any way to really tell what will happen in the absence of a schematic or definite specifications about the speakers.

The speakers came out in the mid to late 1990s. Even if they had a digital input based on technology of that era, that is not a guarantee for "that specific circuit" to work on today's 2008 circuits, etc..

The fact that you observed and articulated pretty well the initial delay where the sound was chopped off and then a specific delay until the popping occurred implies that electrically, a "circuit is charging up and "discharging abruptly". The abrupt discharge being the popping. This is just "educated guessing" based on the symetry or consistency of your information.

For a high end audio system, which computer systems are not, analog, for years, was (or still is) much prefered to digital by the "high end gurus or audiophiles".
Point is analog is not all bad. It is more accurate sound given a "high end" system. Speaker cones are analog devices but can be driven by specifically designed digital circuits. Digital gives the "audio designer" a lot of leeway to manipulate sound, more easily, in ways one cannot with analog; this can certainly lead to "preferences by users". Superior sound that more fits a specific enviroment (theater) or a room could be better (surround sound) using digital than analog, etc..

The following info in quotes is typical of what I found on the internet.
"What brand and model are those speakers - if you are trying to connect Digital only speakers to an analog output - IT WILL NEVER WORK.

Example Boston Accustics BA-635 & BA-735
(note some have both digital and analog - but you must change the cable...)" BA-635 being analog and BA-735 being digital. Purpose of including this quote is the statement that you cannot put a digital speaker on analog output (and vice versa).

This is an "epinions" link that is good. Look for analog in front of BA635.
http://www.epinions.com/review/pr-Speakers_Boston_Acoustics_BA_790_PC_multimedia_spe aker_system_BA790RUS/content_65365380740

[CrazyMike]

OK, yep its the speakers. Like I said, they do work and the sound is fine when plugged into the digital input, but there is the delay before it starts and the 'pop' after the sound event.

I finally got it all unplugged and connected the digital output to my new Onkyo stereo and amazingly, no delay and no 'popping' sounds!

So I think you are correct - it seems the older circuitry cannot react fast enough to 'turn on' when the digital input is found and I guess it gets angry or embarrassed and exits the sound event with a pop.

For now the analog input works fine and I'll need to upgrade to newer speakers if I want to go back to digital in the future.

Thank you so much for all the research and help everyone!!!

Case Closed!!!

[The Wise Monkey]

Glad you got it sorted - good job zburns. :D

[zburns]

Just saw your post. Good news. Glad it finally made sense. Your observation on the pre delay and the post delay and pop was the major clue, seriously!