New Computer Build

[Damlite]

I don't really know much about computers, but I decided to read up a little bit and start getting a few quotes at retail outlets near me. I put all the parts together from a local retailer, and ended up with a computer build that resides on the high end of the market, with a high price tag (but within my budget).

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1531/computersp7.gif

I'd like to know whether half of it even fits all together, and weather I should make any necessary changes that may benefit me budget or performance wise.

My computer is used for general use and pretty much everything from burning, file transferring, gaming, photoshop, documentating and general browsing.

[The Wise Monkey]

Your CPU doesn't fit with your motherboard - CPU is socket 771, mobo is socket 775. You will probably be better off getting the Q9450 for about $380 though, as the performance difference between them is minimal, plus you can easily overclock the 9450 to 3GHz, thus saving yourself $700.

You might also want to go for the 9800GTX as well - better performance, about the same price:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127340

You will need a better PSU than the supplied one - I recommend the Corsair TX650:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

In addition, that is way too much for the motherboard - check out this EVGA 790i:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188025

This only takes DDR3 RAM, which costs more initially, but you are saving elsewhere so it can be justified, plus is better for the future:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227297

I think that's about it - comes to a bit less than your original price I think, so you could buy an extra WD Raptor HD to use for the OS, while having the 640GB drive for storage.

[Damlite]

Thanks for the advice

CPU - I sort of thought that too, except I'll have to read up on how to go about overclocking it if necessary, seeing as the difference between the two isnt largely noticable.

PSU - So you recommend a PSU around the 650W range? And how do PSUs fit in cases? are certain PSUs limited to a type of case?

Motherboard and memory- Thanks for the recommendation, I'm not sure if that 790i is also DDR3 memory though, and is the motherboard limited to certain shaped cases?

Making changes as coordinated (I changed to the Q9450 core2quad cpu, xfx nforce 780i-SH9 mobo which supports DDR2 RAM and video card to 9800GTX extreme edition) , it came to a new unofficial total of 2206.50, with my main concern being the thermaltake casing with the psu that comes with it. I'm not sure whether to replace it with another case, another PSU, whether or not the motherboard fits the case and so on, shedding light on that would be great.

[The Wise Monkey]

Motherboards come in several standard sizes, with the most common being ATX and microATX, which will fit in 99% of modern cases. The Thermaltake case you selected definitely supports ATX size motherboards.

The PSU ususally slots into a bay at either the top or the bottom of the case, and is fixed in place with screws. Almost all PSUs are the same size in order to make it easier on system builders. :)

[Damlite]

Great, I confirmed my new motherboard size to be ATX with a cpu socket of 775 (corresponding to your reccommendation), so the processor, memory and case all merge together fine, along with the psu.

The 9800GTX DDR3 vid card im not sure if it fits with my targetted motherboard (Link to mobo specs (http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa;jsessionid=aDMCpfzVo a_hjOUBmP?series=XFX+nForce+780i&productConfigurationId=1743832))

And will i need to purchase a seperate psu and install it? Will my computer overheat or not function properly with the 430W?

With regards to purchasing a WD raptor for the OS, I was also thinking anotehr alternative would be to petition the current HD and stick the OS on one. Would that also be feasible? Or would the OS run smoothly and efficiently on the additional raptor if i wanted to get one? (the extra raptor drive puts on another ~$200 on the total amount)

[The Wise Monkey]

Like CPUs, RAM and most other modern components, GFX cards come in standard specifications. These are PCI, PCI-e, PCI-e 1.1 x16, and PCI-e 2.0, as well as a few random ones. All you need to know is that any card with one of these listed in the specs will fit in a mobo with the same info. So in your case, the 9800GTX is PCI-e 2.0, which is definitely supported by your mobo.

Partitioning the HD is an option, but you will get more performance if you have a separate drive. It's really up to you - spend $150 on a 74GB Raptor, or have a partition on your 640GB drive. All I can say is that I have been running my OS on a Raptor for several years now, and there is a very big difference - I could restart XP and be working again within 45 seconds. :)

[Damlite]

I'm learnding with the wise monkey!

i'll think about getting the raptor, so now everything pretty much fits. Last Question:

Why do you suggest obtaining the 650W PSU?

[The Wise Monkey]

I am looking to offer as much future proofing as possible. :)

- You will need more than the 430W give by the supplied PSU
- Bundled PSUs are usually of lower quality than those bought separately
- The 9800GTX requires two 6-pin PCI-e power connectors, which I doubt will be available on the packaged PSU
- If you ever decide to add another GFX card in the future, then this PSU will support it. Similarly, and additional HDs, optical drives etc will all be supported.

So there you are - the main reason you will need a more powerful PSU is that your components, especially the GFX card, will need the extra juice that you just can't get from a generic supplied PSU.

[Damlite]

Point taken,

Is there a balance point for PSUs? Ie. Is there any particular reason why your suggesting I purchase a 650W and not a 700, 800 and so on? (I'm thinking of getting a PSU thats around 750W)

[The Wise Monkey]

You could go for the TX750 if you wanted to, but there is no point getting anything higher than this - its just a waste of electricity.

Quality plays a much more prominent role than wattage in PSU power. The Corsair range are built by Seasonic, who have been the best PSU manufacturers for a while now. This quality means that a TX750 will support easily as much as a 1000W other brand PSU.

[Damlite]

I see, would 600W suffice, or is that borderline and must definately be at least 650 with that 9800GTX vid card?

I've been shopping around as well outside other computer part suppliers, and i've noticed a number of companies come up with the exact same video card, all just cheaper.

for example, my vid card is the 9800GTX DDR3 512MB

Generic brand~$339
Leadtek brand~$362
Gigabyte brand~$383
Asus brand~$383
XFX brand ~$464

Whats the difference? Quality and customer service, or something more?

[The Wise Monkey]

The customer service is a large part of it. For example, EVGA offer a 90 day step-up program when you buy a card new that enables you to trade it in for a better model within a 90 day period, and you only pay the difference between the two cards.

Other things such as bundled software/games, any overclocking and slightly different specs will also add to the price, but you are really just paying extra for the brand name.

As for the PSU issue, the 9800GTX requires at least 230W just by itself under full load, so you need something powerful to support it. It really depends on how much you want to future proof your PC - the TX750 comes with two 8-pin PCI-e power adapters, which are needed for the 9800GX2 and will probably be used more and more in future cards. So you may be better off paying slightly more for the more powerful PSU now rather than having to upgrade within the next 4-5 years.

[Damlite]

Understandable. I'm going to start asking for quotes at my targetted retailers, in the hopes of purchasing and completing this build by early-mid July. Also have to follow up on any last quieries with the retailer, basically to see if I can purchase the PSU and case within the one and compromising the value by taking out the PSU that comes with it, asking if it all fits (from which we determined it should), and whether the video card brick fits into the mid tower case. Final stats appear like this, with reasons of choice added.

Final Estimated Price: $2166.70
Quad-Core 2.66GHz Processor (followed the monkey)
780i Motherboard (followed the monkey)
640GB @7200rpm Hard Drive (partitioning strategy for now, if I need a 45 second boot up and insane performance I'll get a second raptor for the OS)
DVD Re-Writer Drive (just for installing my essentials)
2GB @8500/1066Hz RAM (expansion slots left on the mobo, if I need more I'll get more)
No additional sound card (sound card I already think comes default with the mobo, "8-Channel High Definition Audio")
512MB 256bit Graphics Card (followed the monkey)
22" Gloss Black Widescreen LCD Monitor (easy on the eyes)
Logitech Black Mouse and Keyboard (prettyful and ergonomic?)
600W PSU (Get more if and/or when I need it)
Windows Vista Ultimate (or XP, depends whichever I get my hands on)

[The Wise Monkey]

Sounds good. :)

If you are going to use more than 3GB of RAM, you will need the 64-bit version of your chosen OS.

[Damlite]

Intel Core2Quad Extreme QX9650 3.00Ghz for $1177.

Will overclocking the Q9450 to 3 get a very similar performance result?

[The Wise Monkey]

It is close, but not the same. The C2Q-E range have an unlocked multiplier, so you can overclock them like crazy. However, overclocking a Q9450 to 3GHz will offer the same performance as a stock QX9650.

Why are you looking to spend 3 times as much for hardly any gain in performance? :/

[Damlite]

Yea, I figured so, because i'm a monkey youtube noob with computers, lmao. Nah, I wasnt thinking on purchasing it, was just wondering if for whatever reason I needed to clock my cpu, if it would achieve the same result to another processor in the same calibur.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7382/dskjskgfsvl4.jpg

which one? The price is also now a little bit higher, but will hopefully drop done in the next few weeks because of the end of financial year, so i have to start telling them what i want in the next two or three weeks if i want the full computer ready by the 5/6th of july.

You can also recommend to me other video cards of either performance or price superiority, but I will only consider adding it further down the track, rather than replacing it on the mobo.

[The Wise Monkey]

The 9800GTX is your best bet at the moment - great performing card at a decent price. Finally, I have found something that is cheaper here in the UK than it is in the US - the 9800GTX is £190 = $370. :D

Its up to you really - if you want that tiny extra bit of performance, then go for the XXX edition. There really won't be that much difference, maybe a few fps here and there.

[Damlite]

lot cheaper, is it xfx or evga?

The total price is cranking up a bit, its around the 2200-2300 mark now, without any peripherals its still pretty decent, $1700 AU.

[The Wise Monkey]

EVGA 9800GTX, now down to £155:

http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=50DG

:D

[Damlite]

Only if i get Crysis and need two 9800GTXes, in which case i'll also grab that PSU of yours while im at it, lol.

Progress so far:
Quote obtained and order is pretty much setup (but pricetag not finalised until closer to the end of june date for the financial year clearence), I havent confirmed a pickup date for the parts, but I'll punch in 5th or 6th of July. Youtube video going up around that date to review and reflect my opinion and the overall transition of upgrading from the old to new rig.

[The Wise Monkey]

Good stuff - we always like to see how rigs turn out. :)

[Damlite]

Okay, the centrecom guy is confusing the hell out of me.

Mainly around, poewr supply, and graphics card.

The power supply he's recommending to get me has the same wattage as your own recommendation, 650W, the Coolmaster Extreme Power 650W PSU, but a lot of the reviews on the internet (all of them) are saying, while it performs, its very very loud then it claims on its specifications (meaning reliability on authenticity must be a bit weird). Conclusively, I do not want to get a Coolmaster PSU.

The graphics card retailers recommend to me (as an overall RTS/rpg player e.g. starcraft/mmorpgs/diablo) is to get the 8800GT (approx $300 AU).

But, if im already going to invest 300 bucks into a video, I may as well go all the way and get the 9800GTX xXx edition at $480 AU. The bad thing is, I have to get a 750W power supply, as leaving it at 600 is dangerous, and that will mean two things:

*The 9800GTX will never use its full load until I get demanding RTSes
*Even at the 9800GTX using full load, it wont ever need 750W, wasting power

The bottomline is I want parts that will last me for a very long time, but im not sure whether its worth it or not.

The other option is to get a 96/8600GT thats a hell lot cheaper than either the 88/98 range, and wont require as large a requirement, leaving me room further down the track to upgrade to a more appropiate rig if needed. I'm not a fanatic after frame rates and 100% smooth gameplay, it even seems my style of play has become accustomed to an erratic frame rate, I play the same games on my friend's better performing computers worse because the gameplay is so smooth.

Conclusively,

Option 1: 9800GTX xXx Edition/750W PSU @ $670
Not as energy efficient (be in surplus). Will take years for full load and productive use to be reached with video card, but ideal long term investment.

Option 2: 9600GT Alpha Dog xXx Edition/600W @ $400
More energy efficient. Full load and productive use will be reached faster, but may be replaced or supported in future.

Any 2 cents?

(on the side, completely excluding a video card, would 150-200W be enough to supply a rig that has 1 optical,hd,mobo with lan and sound,ram etc.?)

[RickyTick]

The 9600GT is a very good performing card. Its very close in performance to the 8800GT.

My recommendation would be for either the 8800GTS 512mb, or the 9800GTX. Whichever fits your budget better.

For the psu, its hard to beat the Corsair HX620. That's more than enough power to support your system.

[The Wise Monkey]

Why not go for the Corsair HX620 or the TX650? Both are excellent PSUs, and are more than capable of handling a 9800GTX.

I don't know why you think that buying a 600W PSU is dangerous - the 9800GTX takes a max of about 220W at full load, and the rest of the components will easily be covered by the remaining wattage.

[Damlite]

Yea, got that clarified last night. woot :)

It might be 2 or so weeks until some of the computer parts get delivered (and i dont like picking up bits and pieces here and there), so i'll have to wait until early-mid july for the whole rig to be obtained, which is around my estimated ETA anyway.

[Damlite]

Update 29/06/2008:

Order is finalised and ETA is 2-3 weeks (mid July) for ALL the parts to come in, (and I want to pick all of them up together, so I'm not going to get a few now) and computer will be finalised (and thanks to Ricky and Wise, I'm spending more money). Final specifications, you'll just have to wait and see ;)

[Damlite]

After massive delays i've finally got all my parts in, assembling and video will go up onto youtube soon.

[The Wise Monkey]

Wow, what took so long? :/

[Damlite]

useless retailer mixed up my parts, i took longer because i was kicking and screaming for "compensation"

AND. cut me some slack, its my first time assembling a computer :(...:P

*excited*