preassembled units

[Dan]

I realize that makes like Dell and such are priced "better" due to volume made but are they really better? Does one trade price for being loaded with proprietary software and other "junk"?

Building a unit seems to cost a little more at the offset but isnt it cheaper in the long run?

Please excuse the newbie questions as I am trying to learn and understand.

Dan

[Rob]

Compared to other computer makers, Dell is a good choice in terms of value and quality. But if you can build your own computer then you'll be much happier with what you get. You'll also save a lot of money compared to a similarly configured retail computer. Of course, you have to provide the labor and provide your own customer service, but you're going to gain a lot of knowledge.

Those who buy and those who build can both provide good, sound reasons for doing it that way to get a computer. When it comes to building a computer, it's important what question is being asked. "Can I build a computer?" or "Should I build a computer?"

The first question is someone who wants to build a computer for the enjoyment of doing it, but is not sure that they have the skill to do it. To this I say - if you have the desire to build a computer then you can do it.

The second question is someone who wants to know if they'll save money doing it, but otherwise is not motivated to build their own computer. It's true you'll save money and get a better computer, as well as learn a lot, but it's also true you'll have to invest the time and patience to do it. If money is the only motivation then I think frustration at the first challenge will be a problem.

Recently I looked at the Dell XPS line of computers, which are well regarded. A decent system priced out at $1600, yet did not support Firewire (IEEE 1394). It also only supported the slower speeds of DDR2 memory, and had limited internal expansion slots. As well as a proprietary motherboard. To a PC builder like me, it's an unattractive option to spend that kind of money to get that kind of computer. But a non-PC builder may find it something they can live with.

And for those looking to build power computers that can easily cost $5000, you'll save an enormous amount of money building it yourself. But personally I prefer to follow the "six month rule of delayed acquistion", building a computer that's very nearly as powerful as measured by benchmarks, 100% as useful as measured by real-world work, at a fraction of the dollars.

[Dan]

Thanks Rob for your response. I have the desire to build that is fueled by my desire to learn. I believe I have the skill to do this. I have disassembled and maintained 2 older units (10yr old +) and am a hands on guy that is willing to try. I am by nature a "do it myself" person.I fix my own vehicles, am very mechanical...even built my own home nail by nail. Im also a cheap bastard that thrives on getting something as good or better than something offered to the buying masses if not for anything ,but for control of items installed and possability of upgrading later on????......for a unit thats good enought for my needs which isnt all that great. No gaming needed just a quick do all simple thing that will play music/surf web,be quiet and be somewhat up to date. Does that make sense? Of course price......around $400 - $500 or so. Prob not possible or realistic but my reasoning on this because of the rapid "devaluaiton" ,if you will, of computer stuff. I feel that because of how I use it I will never get my moneys worth out of it.....Am I sick in my thinking?:D

The problem for me right now is the stagering array of choices of all the components involved and how they mesh together (or not). It seems to be a lot of trial and error that can be very costly.

Dan

My apologies if my thoughts are posted in the wrong topic.

[Rob]

A budget of $400-500 is not a lot to buy everything from scratch. Windows XP alone may cost around $100 for the upgrade version. Parts made with older, mostly discontinued technology, such as 754-pin or socket A, make for a computer plenty powerful for what you have in mind. They should cost much less than the new components of today. I don't keep up with the best places to get discontinued components. I'm guessing eBay or a local computer show would be good bets. The processor, RAM and motherboard all need to be compatible, so be careful with those. The processor and motherboard need to be of the same "socket type", such as socket 754. The RAM needs to be compatible with the motherboard, but there are not that many types and even types for older technology are easy to find. The motherboard will probably need an AGP video card. Other components, such as IDE hard drives and optical drives, PCI modems and sound cards, and keyboard, mouse and monitor are compatible with virtually any system.

I have links on my memory upgrade page to Crucial's memory advisor that identifies the right RAM for any kind of computer or motherboard.
http://www.mysuperpc.com/pmu/steps.shtml

I also have a memory FAQ page which may be helpful:
http://www.mysuperpc.com/pmu/computer_memory_upgrade_faq.shtml

Of course, personally I think the recommendations I make on my home page are generally the best way to spend the money.
http://www.mysuperpc.com

But everyone's needs are a little different so it may work out best for you to proceed the way your thinking. It looks fine to me.

[DerkWehler]

Hey Rob (or anyone):

I'm new here, but had a question: Does anyone know of a highly rated place where one can select the components and have a system built, tested, and shipped, without paying more than $200-300 more than I'd pay for building it myself?

I have spent all day on the magic micro site, picking my components. I liked them because I could choose no OS, and leave whatever other parts out as well. And, for the most part, they had an acceptable selection of components (I was going for an AMD x2 5200 system).

I had finally decided on all the components I wanted and was about to order, when I decided I would check some reviews of them. I ended up here:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/MagicMicro

..where I found mostly terrible reviews. So now I am back to the drawing board. Yes, I COULD build my own computer, and would take most of the advice from this site (I have built my last 2 computers)...

But I'm just kind of tired of shopping around at all the different places for the best prices; I'd like to just have it all built to my specs, and sent with, perhaps, even a warranty!

Does anyone know of a reliable place that will have a really good set of options? (The Dell's of the world need not apply.)

Any suggestions appreciated.

-Derk

[Rob]

If you want a low-end computer then you can probably buy it for cheaper than you can build it. The higher-end the computer, the more you will save building it yourself. At the very high end you will save hundreds or even thousands building it yourself.

As for warranty, keep in mind the parts you buy when you build your own have a warranty. Big resellers like Dell may provide some reasonable level of technical service and support, but I doubt you'll find much from smaller outfits.

[dadbuilt]

The best reason I found for building my own back in 2000 was it allowed me to puchase the best parts a piece here and there which made good money sence. With the kids and all just throwing $2900.00 at my hobbie at one time back then was just not going to go over well with the house note car payments and child care bill not to mention food and clothing, diapers for the kids. My rig was priced at just over this amount when I wanted it new from a well known local cupertino/san jose custom gaming pc shop, so in the long run it might cost the same but you can post date the cost.

[DaevinityDirector]

I started out about a decade ago upgrading parts to an old Compaq. At the time the machine was purchased it seemed like a great deal to me (256mb RAM, Celeron Processor sub 1.6GHz processor, 40GB HDD, onbard graphics) as it came with a monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers and Windows ME. However, when things started to go wrong with it or I wanted to improve it, I soon discovered that what I thought I was getting and what I had paid for were two distinctly different things. Some of the components used I couldn't even find replacements for. So in my experience off-the-shelf PC's tend to be of lesser value (quality v cost) than customer specified systems.

Since then I have gained significant experience building PC's to the point that I started receiving requests from friends and work colleagues to build their machines for them. The rest as they say is history. Building your own PC or getting someone to build it for you are great ways to ensure you get the system you want, to the high quality and efficiency you want at a price that you control. The parts can be more expensive, depends upon your supplier and whether you can use your existing machine as a "test" / experiment first before building your own. If you use your existing machine practicing to assemble and disassemble it (making sure it works) this can save you time and money later. Ultimately, the cost and quality benefits / gains mean you do save on the cost of the product (overall) and also electricity too as many off-the-shelf PC's use non-branded / generic PSU's which tend to be less energy efficient.

I hope I have in some way helped.