Proposed build - comments please?

[bighoo93]

I've been a lurker on and off again for about a year or so. I'm finally getting ready for my first build. Probably a month or so off, not coincidentally around the time that I expect my "tax rebate" in the mail. First a little background. I have always been a Dell buyer, but not afraid to open up the box and add my own stuff. I was pushed over the edge when I needed a new PSU, but couldn't just buy a good one off the shelf because the Dell PSU (and motherboard) are non-standard, so I was forced to buy something aftermarket, which ticked me off. Never again. Besides the fact that I like tinkering around in the computer and really look forward to the challenge of the build and eventual satisfaction when it works, I'd like to be able to upgrade when and however I see fit.

As for the uses, I plan on regular old low-intensity uses like web browsing and Quicken budgeting. I also want to store and edit photos, and do some relatively amateur family video-editing. I would absolutely love to play some games, so optimistically I'd like to have at least a moderate capability. Realistically, I have almost no time to do that with a wife and three young children, so I actually am looking to avoid spending a significant amount on graphics capabilities for games. Based on my reading of Rob's guide, many many threads on this forum, and countless reviews at Newegg, I've compiled my proposed build. In some cases, I have included alternatives I am weighing (mobo, for example). In others, I have included my thoughts or questions about the particular component. I would greatly appreciate a review of this build by some of the experienced folks here, as well as response to any of the questions you see fit. My hope is to build a system for no more than ~$800, though that is not a hard limit. I am definitely interested in places where I could save a few bucks without losing substantial performance or flexibility, and similarly, places where I could get excellent bang for the buck in those areas with a little more investment. I already have a monitor.

Case/PSU: Antec Sonata III - $105.99 (buy.com). Good review on this from Rob. Comes with what I understand is a decent power supply. I really don't care about how the case looks, so I am cost conscious. I understand that the Corsair 520W PSU is overwhelmingly favored. If there is another case that I should consider, along with the Corsair PSU, I'm all ears, but keep in mind that cost is a primary concern for this component. I don't want junk that will ruin my system, but am not anxious to spend an extra $100 if I don't have to.

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 LGA775 - $189.99 (Newegg). There seems to be near-universal approval of this CPU. However, this one seems to be even more enthusiastically recommended, for a similar price: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115046. I am certainly willing to go up $10 for even marginal superiority.

Motherboard: I am really up for grabs here. I am considering among three I have seen frequently recommended here. I would have to be convinced that there is a significant reason for a non-enthusiast to go for the ASUS over the Gigabyte, given the $50 difference. The Abit would require less convincing, since it is only $20 difference, including a whopping rebate.

ASUS P5K-C - $139.99 (Newegg)
ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - $108.54 after rebate EDIT: the $70 rebate appears to have been a 1-day deal. It is now a $30 rebate, so I would almost certainly go with the Gigabyte, below (Newegg)
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX - $89.99 (Newegg)

Cooler: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro - $29.99 (Newegg) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134
Am I correct that the thermal compound that comes with this cooler is sufficient?

Memory: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) - $29 after rebate (Newegg). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145034 Rob recommends Crucial, but this forum seems partial to Corsair, and the price is absurd. I have been convinced that I should not go over 2 GB for 32-bit Windows.

Video Card: I would like to stay under $100, but could be convinced to go up if there is a compelling cost/benefit for my purposes. Some cards I have seen recommended here:

EVGA 256-P2-N751-TR GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130085) $96.99
EVGA 256-P2-N615-TX GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 (Rob's rec) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130062&Tpk=N82E16814130062 - $93.99

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM - $89.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

CD/DVD burner: Lite-On DVD/CD burner with LightScribe http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072 $40.58

OS: The great debate, Vista Home Premium ($92.99) or XP ($92.89)? Price is obviously not a concern in choosing between these two OEM versions... I just don't know. Maybe I should flip a coin? Generally I like to have the latest and greatest, but it isn't clear to me that Vista is really the greatest at this point. Based on what I have read here, I expect to go with Vista, unless someone suggests a compelling reason otherwise.

My price ranges from $762 to $825, if I take the least or most expensive from each of these. That hits my target price range. I'm curious to see what the pros think, and what suggestions that have for different options. THANKS!

[RickyTick]

I like what you got there. Looks like you did your homework.

Here's my assesment.
1. The case/psu combo is great. Very good quality. Excellent reviews.
2. Go with the E8400 cpu. Its newer generation, and better.
3. That's an unbelievable price on the IP35 Pro. Get it, its superb. I paid over $150.
4. Save the $30. You don't need the cooler. The E8400 comes with a cooler that is more than sufficient, unless you're overclocking.
5. That memory is fine. $29 :eek: Who could argue with that.
6. Go with the 8600GT. Better card, and it has DX10 capibility.
7. Hard drive is terrific
8. Optic drive is terrific.
9. Vista Home Premium 32 bit. Its a better OS than XP and its more secure. With the new Vista SP1, nearly all compatibility issues have gone away. It has more bells and whistles and works well with pictures and videos and such. The only advantage of XP is that its slightly faster in gaming benchmarks. You guys can flame if you want, but I'm sold on Vista. :p

[chunkylover53]

Love my Sonata III case. Very understated design, so it looks good in our study. My wife did not want something in here with a bunch of flashing lights, and this case fit that bill.

Vista haters are dwindling. By the end of the year they'll be all but gone. Go with Vista.

[RickyTick]

from your edit...

Yes go with the Gigabyte at that price.

[bighoo93]

Thanks for the review and advice. The OEM version of the e8400 comes without a stock cooler and is $10 less. Is it worth an extra $19 ($29 - $10) to get the AFP cooler, rather than the retail version of the CPU with the cooler?

Also, is there any other brand of hard drive I should consider besides WD? One of my current WD drives died on me, though I don't know what to blame that on (maybe I overloaded my lame Dell system).

[RickyTick]

I would go with the retail version cpu w/cooler. If there were ever a problem with the cpu, they may point the blame at the aftermarket cooler. It really doesn't matter.

As an alternative to the WD, you could go with a Seagate Barracuda. Either the 7200.10 or 7200.11. They cost more, are not as fast, and are louder than the WD, but it has a 5 yr warranty.

[bighoo93]

Thanks for the advice. I have seen mixed reports on the stock cooler, but I have no plans for massive overclocking, and frankly, installing the cooler was probably the most concerning aspect of putting the system together. Maybe irrational, but still...

I'm not inclined to go with a different HD because of the warranty, which sounds like the only benefit. I doubt their warranty will pay for data recovery. A lot of good it will do me if they give me a new empty hard drive to replace the one with 1000 photos and videos that was lost. And yes, I know, I just need to backup for frequently. I know store photos on my HD, a DVD, and X-drive.com. Paranoid a little, but I did lose 18 months worth of photos.

[bighoo93]

EVGA and Newegg are having good deals this month. The video card is now $59.99 after rebate. So, I'm wondering how much better one of these two would be instead, still under $100:

EVGA 512-P2-N757-TR GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail ($99.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130290

EVGA 512-P2-N756-TR GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail ($79.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130292

[RickyTick]

The better the video, the better the gaming experience.

[bighoo93]

The better the video, the better the gaming experience.

Right, I mean, how significant is the difference between the three that are under consideration. I'm willing to go up to $100 if it is useful. The step up to $79 (from $59) gets me 512 MB instead of 256, but it is GDDR2, instead of GDDR3. I can't even tell if that is an upgrade. Then going up to $99 gets me the 512 MB with GDDR3. They are all inexpensive cards. If you think the improvement in performance is linear or better then I would consider going with the more expensive ones. That said, a decent video card for $59 is sweet...

[RickyTick]

It will depend a lot on what games you plan to play and at what resolution. Running Crysis at 1920 x 1200 on a 24 inch monitor will be out of the question. However, some older games may run fine at 1680 x 1050 on a 20 inch monitor. You also have to consider the settings in the game as far as 'eye-candy' goes.

As a rule of thumb for a gaming machine, you always buy as much video card as you can afford. The premise being that more cost equals better video card.

With all that said, here's what I'd recommend. Buy the 8600GT card that you feel best fits your needs, but buy the EVGA brand. This will give you 90 days to use the card and step up to a better one if you're not happy with the performance. You'll have to pay the difference in price between the 2 cards as well as shipping, but at least you'll have what you want. Of course if you're happy with the first card, then don't step up, and just keep it.

Tell us what games you plan to play, and what monitor you have.

[chunkylover53]

Good article at Tom's on video cards.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/04/07/the_best_gaming_graphics_cards_for_the_money/page2.html

I have the 8600GT 512MB DDR3 you referenced above. I would stay away from the DDR2 versions of the 8600GT. In addition to the attached article, I've read in a number of places that they don't perform as well as the DDR3. Go with either the 256 or the 512 DDR3. If you NEVER play games, go with the 256. If you play once in a while, go with the 512.

[limski]

Hi, this is going to be my first pc build. Any feedback/advice is wellcome. This pc primarily for office use, novice photo works but not much gaming nor 3d modelling. If passable recycle from old pc parts.
mobo: gigabyte ga p35-ds3l.
cpu: intel e8400, g9300 or q6600.???
ram: g.skill 2gb(2x1gb) 240-pin ddr 800(pc2 6400). pcu: corsair 520hx. gpu: nvida 8600gt or recycle ati radeon hd2400xt.??? hdd: wd caviar se16 500gb 7200rpm or seagate 7200.10 500gb. dvd/rw: recycle lite-on dvd/cd burner. cooler: scythe scnj-1100p 120mm, if need. case: undicided. monitor: recycle gateway fhd2400. os: ms vists 64-bit home preminum. I haven't decided on a case yet buy new or recycle old case? The list above rite now is still tentative. Thanks

[bighoo93]

With all that said, here's what I'd recommend. Buy the 8600GT card that you feel best fits your needs, but buy the EVGA brand. This will give you 90 days to use the card and step up to a better one if you're not happy with the performance. You'll have to pay the difference in price between the 2 cards as well as shipping, but at least you'll have what you want. Of course if you're happy with the first card, then don't step up, and just keep it.

Tell us what games you plan to play, and what monitor you have.

Thanks for your patience in all my questions. Truth is, I wish I could be more of a gamer, but I doubt I'll have the time to be. So the 8600GT is probably the one for me. Its a compelling price, and if it is a problem, I can either step up, or even change it out entirely in a year or so. My monitor is only 17" (Dell 1704), 1280X1024.

On power consumption: EVGA website for the 8600GT recommends a minimum of 22A on the +12V rail (http://www.evga.com/Products/moreInfo.asp?pn=256-P2-N751-AR), but the Antec website says the Earthwatts 500 (which comes with the Sonata III case) only supports 17A on the +12V rail (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=27500).

Is that a problem?

I'm also still confused by the overclocked or superclocked versions (a question I asked on the video card upgrade board). Seems like something you can do yourself, rather than buy a version that has been overclocked before it was sent.

[RickyTick]

Those recommendations for the psu are assuming a full system, not just the video card. The 8600GT typically only uses around 6 amps and draws about 75 watts.

I wouldn't worry about an overclocked or superclocked card. You're not a big time gamer, so its not going to help you.

[RickyTick]

You probably should have started your own thread.

You've listed an excellent build. Kind of a tossup between the Q6600 and the E8400, both are great. I would replace the case instead of using that Gateway. It would be a much cleaner build.

[limski]

To ricky, thank you and look for new case, q6600 and e8400 depend on price and service.

[RickyTick]

Cases are very much a personal preference.

Several of us here have the Antec 900 and really like it a lot. I've seen a few of the Cooler Master Stacker series that I like too. A new case out now that's getting really great reviews is the Cooler Master Cosmos S, but its expensive. I also like the Gigabyte 3D Aurora 570.

I personally don't like cases with a door on the front. It can get annoying having to open that door everytime to change a disc.

[bighoo93]

Good grief, that video card that I mentioned in my proposed build (EVGA 256-P2-N751-TR GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16) is now $49.99 after rebate and free shipping at Newegg. Last week when I posted it was $96.99. Almost cut the price in half in 5 days. I know its not the world's greatest card, but will they be just giving it away if I wait a couple more days?

[RickyTick]

Wow thats great. Hurry up and order that thing before its too late.

[bighoo93]

Hi, I've been following this thread and have just ordered most of the parts that you listed in your first post, with the later recommendations. Would be interested in sharing experiences if you go ahead too. I'm using Rob's book as a bible during the construction.

Excellent. My parts are arriving today and tomorrow, and hopefully I will be building over the weekend. That means I also hope that the experts will be on call around here on Saturday...

[Tom_ZeCat]

OS: The great debate, Vista Home Premium ($92.99) or XP ($92.89)? Price is obviously not a concern in choosing between these two OEM versions...

Do you have an older printer or other older peripherals you want to use with your new PC? If so, make certain that Vista drivers are available for them before you go with Vista.

[bighoo93]

Parts arrived today... Cross fingers and stand by...

[bighoo93]

Hi, I've been following this thread and have just ordered most of the parts that you listed in your first post, with the later recommendations. Would be interested in sharing experiences if you go ahead too. I'm using Rob's book as a bible during the construction.

OK, I am about to become your new best friend. While Rob's book is a great resource, if you are going with a similar setup as I have, you could run into trouble at first boot following his instructions. I ended up getting the lovely spinning fans, with no signal from the monitor, and no beeps (also no power LED at first, but that was solved by just switching the direction of the plug). I tried EVERYTHING to isolate the problem, including all the steps listed by Rob, and was just about ready to post in the forum here about first boot problems.

But as a last resort, I googled my problem, including the Sonata III case. And what would you know, except somebody else had the same exact problem, with the same case and same motherboard. And they tried everything. And they got all kinds of advice. And what it turned out to be was very, very simple. The mobo requires two connections from the PSU. There is the 24 pin connection, which Rob describes well. But then there is also the (unlabeled) 4-pin connection to the ATX_12V plug on the motherboard. Without this, well, you get no beeps and no monitor. I don't think Rob mentions this. However, the instructions that came with the Gigabyte mobo do, and in fact, they have outstanding instructions for setup of the entire system, which I would probably use if I were doing this again.

So there you have it. Quick summary: make sure you connect both the 24 pin AND the 4-pin 12V connectors from the PSU. Then you will have successful first boot! Which I finally had, at 12:30 am...

[shyster]

Not to rain on your parade, but I am pretty sure, Rob, at least on this site talks about both four and eight pins for power supplies to the motherboard.

You cannot follow Robs guide exactly of course since his is outdated in terms of parts used, but other than that all the technology of putting things together is still viable and useful.

I cannot speak to the book since I only used the online resource, but I do not think it would be outdated in such a fashion as to not have the four and eight pins listed.

Either way though I am glad you got your problem resolved, and are using your knowledge to help others who might have similar problems, that is of course what this place is all about.

[bighoo93]

Not to rain on your parade, but I am pretty sure, Rob, at least on this site talks about both four and eight pins for power supplies to the motherboard.

You're right. Its not Rob's fault that I was an idiot and clicked on the 20-pin instructions. Doh! I'll modify my post.

[shyster]

I was not trying to call you an idiot or anything, because although Robs page does have awesome information, it is somewhat cluttered and confusing if you are new. I still had trouble finding the assembly page to confirm what I said in my previous post. I did find it of course, but there are not real quick links, you sort of have to go through the entire page and then run through the links at the bottom. Even then it is still easy to miss since it is sort of in the lower middle mixed in with other things.

The fact that you had the problem could mean other people might have the same problem, not realizing there are two links to choose from or what the difference between the two is.